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ATF Shotgun Study - Link Inside

Discussion in 'Legal' started by TheDriver, Jan 27, 2011.

  1. TheDriver

    TheDriver Well-Known Member

    Last edited: Jan 27, 2011
  2. Spec ops Grunt

    Spec ops Grunt Well-Known Member

  3. Nautilus

    Nautilus Well-Known Member

    For some reason my computer doesn't want to let me open a .pdf... Can somebody post up some cliff notes?
  4. Balrog

    Balrog Well-Known Member

    A Saiga imported with a 5 round magazine would be OK then right? It has a standard stock, and no other illegal features.

    If it is then altered by a company such as Tromix after entering the US, it should still be legal?
  5. TheDriver

    TheDriver Well-Known Member

    Balrog, yes, I think the Saiga is safe. And as long as it complies with 922r (post alteration) its legal. What concerns me is the possibility that the ATF gets into the business of "modability" of firearms - ie if they are able to take drum mags, etc.
  6. Spec ops Grunt

    Spec ops Grunt Well-Known Member

    That ought to be out of their purview. Still, Saiga is moving up on my things to buy list.
  7. 52grain

    52grain Well-Known Member

    Practical competitive shooting is not considered "sporting?"

    Edit to add:
    Sporting to me means that it can be done competitively. How is a shooting competition not considered sporting?
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2011
  8. Kush

    Kush Well-Known Member

    So its unsporting to have night sights, a rail longer than the receiver, a heavy gun, or a flashlight mounted to your gun. Who cares if its sporting or not, since when was the second amendment about sports. I also liked the part about the shotguns being to hard to maneuver for sports, yet some how not to hard for the military.
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2011
  9. roadchoad

    roadchoad Well-Known Member

    The "General Firearm Statutes by State" for Ohio are not in ORC 2923.11 as listed, and do not apply to the entire state. Everything they mention is specific to one city, Columbus. :banghead:
  10. oneounceload

    oneounceload member

    Where did it specifically mention Saiga? I must have missed it. It mentions, like the previous studies about certain specific features, not brand names.............
  11. roadchoad

    roadchoad Well-Known Member

    There is a pic of the saiga, and two pics of the drum. Oddly, they name the 4 other shotguns on the same page as the Saiga, but do not label the Saiga by name. Excluding search engines? It is not shown in it's importable config as well, another flaw in the doc.

    Since the saiga is imported in sporting config, there's not much worry on this, right? What is the purpose of this study? I think there had to be some driving factor to spur the study. Are there other shotguns imported in a configuration not narrowly defined as "sporting"?
  12. chiggerbyt

    chiggerbyt Well-Known Member

    It's amazing to me that no one considered home defense back in 1968, 89,96,etc. etc or considers it in 2011 .
    I would think a shotgun with a forward grip to be absolutely suitable for home defense. It enables the home "defender" to better conrol the shotgun.
    Do we have to have a "Heller" decision for everything??? chig

    FIVETWOSEVEN Well-Known Member

    What other shotguns are listed? Are they what was previously banned like the USAS 12 and Street Sweeper?
  14. roadchoad

    roadchoad Well-Known Member

    527, this document doesn't "ban" anything. The items you mention are still classified as DDs. This study states basically shotguns with any of the following features cannot be imported:

    (1) Folding, telescoping, or collapsible stocks;
    (2) bayonet lugs;
    (3) flash suppressors;
    (4) magazines over 5 rounds, or a drum magazine;
    (5) grenade-launcher mounts;
    (6) integrated rail systems (other than on top of the receiver or barrel);
    (7) light enhancing devices;
    (8) excessive weight (greater than 10 pounds for 12 gauge or smaller);
    (9) excessive bulk (greater than 3 inches in width and/or greater than 4 inches in depth);
    (10) forward pistol grips or other protruding parts designed or used for gripping the
    shotgun with the shooter’s extended hand.
  15. DeepSouth

    DeepSouth Well-Known Member

    Interesting that their "study" didn't involve how often one of these shotguns is used in a crime.

    Guess some facts don't matter.
  16. pikid89

    pikid89 Well-Known Member

    i wonder why saiga (or other brands) dont do like glock does
    import the gun in a legal format using super cheap parts, then when they get here, change em up with American made parts and sell them as they were intended to be sold
  17. Geneseo1911

    Geneseo1911 Well-Known Member

    It appears to me that this doesn't actually change anything. The surprisingly good news is that the ATF views tube and detachable box magazines as equal; they are only concerned with capacity, so this document doesn't bode as badly for the Saiga as we had feared.

    It definitely highlights the ridiculousness of some of our laws, and the idiocy of our politicians. I especially liked the quote from Chris Dodd.

    I was shocked that they actually mentioned possibly considering USPSA as a sporting purpose, although they decided it would need further study.

    All in all not as bad as was feared when the news broke over the weekend. I guess the Prince Law guy is finally vindicated somewhat.

    I will add that it is a little scary to see so much movement in the anti-gun world at one time. Nationally, it has been a pretty easy decade or so, but now we have ATF getting a new, anti-gun director and issuing "studies", rumors of the POTUS calling for new restrictions, and even prominent GOP elitists calling for magazine restrictions. Circle the wagons, folks. We need to build on our pro-gun gains in 2012.

    The other stuff is all evil features from AWB of old; what the heck do they have against rails? I mean, I think modern guns are way over-railed too, but why is having a convenient mounting spot for a light un-sporting?
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2011
  18. armoredman

    armoredman Well-Known Member

    Beacuse you don't need an underbarrel flashlight to shoot skeet, and it's illegal to hunt at night. Self defense, as mentioned already, isn't "sporting".
  19. RX-178

    RX-178 Well-Known Member

    I would like to point out that despite the ATF study on importable features, this does NOT amend 922r in any way shape or form.

    You wouldn't require compliance parts to install a rail on an imported shotgun.
  20. DeepSouth

    DeepSouth Well-Known Member

    No offence but I've never heard of anyone Coon hunting anytime other than night. Coyotes can be hunted at night in many states as well. There are many other animals that can be hunted at night if you live in the right state, here in AL were pretty much limited to Coon as far as I know.

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