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Attention Aussie members. Is this true?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by OH25shooter, Jul 31, 2005.

  1. OH25shooter

    OH25shooter Well-Known Member

    Here's a thought to warm your hearts... From Ed Chenel, a police officer
    in Australia.

    Hi Yanks and Canadians - I thought you all would like to see the real
    figures from Down Under. It has now been 12 months since gun owners in
    Astralia were forced by a new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms
    to be destroyed by our own government, a program costing Australia
    taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.

    The first year results are now in: Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2
    percent, Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent; Australia-wide,
    armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)! In the state of Victoria
    alnoe, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent. (Note that while
    the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not!
    and criminals still possess their guns!) While figures over the previous
    25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has
    changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since the criminals now are
    guaranteed that their prey is unarmed. There has also been a dramatic increase
    in break-ins and assaults of the elderly.

    Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has
    decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in
    successfully ridding Australian society of guns." You won't see this on
    the American /Canadian evening news or hear your government or members of the
    State Assembly amd Ottawa parliament disseminating this information.

    The Australian experience proves it. Guns in the hands of honest citizens
    save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws affect only the
    law-abiding citizens. Take note Americans and Canadians before it's too
  2. Andrew Rothman

    Andrew Rothman Well-Known Member

  3. OH25shooter

    OH25shooter Well-Known Member

    :eek: Sorry...just received the info. Was an honest mistake. Didn't mean to copy a past post. Any moderator feel free to delete.
  4. wizard of oz

    wizard of oz Well-Known Member

    65 % of all statistics are made up. Seriously, that letter doesn't 'smell' genuine to me. (Hard to imagine a pro-gun aussie policeman)

    Feel free to start a gun-control in Oz topic if you are interested.
  5. Spiphel Rike

    Spiphel Rike Well-Known Member

    These stats come from the late nineties I think. I am one of the Australians here, and am appalled. Sadly many Australians now are anti-gun, some look at me like i just sprouted a giant proboscis when i tell them i'm pro gun.

    These figures have only gotten worse I fear, try to check on the ABS (australian bureau of statistics) website.
  6. daniel (australia)

    daniel (australia) Well-Known Member

    This so-called quote is very old and almost certainly apocryphal: the big buyback to which it refers was about 8 years ago.

    Truth is the rates of most crimes haven't changed much here since, but that of itself is enough to demonstrate that the better part of $1 billion dollars (including on-costs) spent on the buyback of lawfully-owned firearms was money wasted.
  7. Kager

    Kager Well-Known Member

    Yeah that is well and truly out of date, and I wouldn't vouch for the stats. More recent were the 2003 Handgun confiscations, which destroyed small pistols, mags over 10 rds, and high cals. (Over .38) and placed very strict ownership requirements i.e. if you own one pistol you must compete in something like 6 nationally recognised competitons on different occasions each year. This may not seem much but this requirement increases for every extra pistol you own. :cuss:
    This year the QLD EPA has combined this with a different tactic; that of progessively shutting down as many shooting ranges they can, including my own local range. This action could jepardize my current license application, has prevented my sister from getting her pistol license. And forces many license holders to repetedly travel excessive distances in order to qualify for their licenses.:mad:

    As a response to the attempted importation of remington pump action rifles fitted with AR mags, the lastest talk is that of restricting lever/pump actions and also detatchable rifle magazines.

    Australian shooters on the whole do not take their rights seriously, and will eventually lose them alltogether.

    IMHO Crime has increased quite a bit, particularly low grade drug/ achohol related.
    Most Aussies are in denial. But there are still nice places to live if you get a long way out of town, or find the right area.
    Politically/socially things are getting pretty bad.

    Take note and don't let it happen in your country

    ........saving up to emigrate :mad:
  8. Arch

    Arch Well-Known Member

    I wouldn't say that we don't take our rights seriously. I mean the 1996 buy back saw the biggest protests held since Vietnam.

    But when we are 4% of the population, living in Howards dictatorship (GST, 1996&2003 Firearm 'reforms', Iraq), and amoungst a society turned into anti-gunners, based purely on ignorance, and an inability to use logical reasoning, the result is we are screwed, and will loose our privalages. And I say privelages, as we don't have rights, the Americans have consitutional rights to arms, we do not.

    And belive me this tears me up, each time I hear a moron politition blaming crime on licenced shooters, and calling for gun control. I mean Lee Rhiannon is a perfect example, asking for a ban on all semi-auto pistols, calling it a "loophole" in the current gun laws. If that ever happens, there goes our olympic team, who look a bunch of thugs, and I will feel so much safer. There are only about 2 sports you can compete in without a repeating pistol (free pistol&sillohette), and both are totally detatched from regular pistol sports. I find anti-gunners incomprehensible. Don't they realized that licenced shooters are not the ones engaged in criminal acts, this has been shown time and time again, though yearly statistics, and plain bloody logic...I don't have a criminal record and am not likely to commit a crime, that's why I am allowed to compete in handgun sports, and own handguns to do so. That's why I am subject to the law, and keep the damn thing in a vault when not in use, and only transport it to and from the range. Where is the risk to public safely??!!??

    We do need a louder political voice, because winging here and in publications such as the ASJ achives nothing! Me? Well I'm a quitter, I'm moving to Washington state at the end of November, and I'm taking my guns with me. Pity, because I really love Australia.
  9. Wrong. You'd only be a "quitter" if you were leaving before or during the fight. The war is lost in Australia, big time, and the brainwashing is too strong to prevent any real re-organizing to fight back. We have the same brainwashing problem which is why we can't/won't re-constitute the local militias anywhere.

    What guns are you bringing to America, and what ones will you buy when you get here (hopefully every assault rifle in the book)?

    Please don't decend into complacency once you've been here awhile and become a Bush supporter. Keep this picture always in mind (these two globalists look like they need to get a freaking room! Even after CAFTA, people will still tell me that Bush is not a globalist :fire: .):

  10. Bruce in West Oz

    Bruce in West Oz Well-Known Member

    Don't know there's much I can add to this that hasn't already been explained.

    The figures may be old, but, surprisingly, we do have some pro-gun coppers; there's one who posts regularly on the SSAA guestbook (www.recalldesign.com/afdf.mgb).

    If anything, with one or two exceptions I think the crime figures are actually worse, but I'm too stuffed up with the flu at the moment to go looking. :p

    The gun stealbacks ... errr ... buybacks were and are frauds. They have not done ANYTHING to make Australia "safer" in any way, shape or form. A billion dollars down the gurgler, for nothing. I notice a news alert today calling for police to assess shooters mentally as to their suitability to own firearms, and for the Registrars of Births, Deaths and Marriages to supply monthly list of deceased to police, to be checked against firearms licence databases, so the coppers can get their hands on the guns first ... :fire: Note that they can be seized and destroyed under our laws with no requirement for compensation (because they're not owned by a licensed owner any more; hence, they're no longer legal).

    The latest debacle over detachable magazines for pump and lever guns just shows how totally off the wall the coppers and police ministers are. Fortunately, it appears the prohibition will only be on "large capacity" detachable magazines (over 10 rounds for centrefire and 15 rounds for rimfire, or so I've heard, and even that not in all States). Even so, it's a totally bloody stupid piece of legislation that will achieve nothing, except a bit more bastardisation of gun owners.

    Whoever said Australia is a "gun hating" country is, sadly, now correct; the antis have won here -- for now. But the battle continues, although some of we old far ... fellas are getting a bit tired of it all.

    Congrats on moving to the USA -- Vermont was always my dream, but I'm an Australian and it just ain't gonna happen. So I'll stay put and keep struggling and kicking arse every chance I get.
  11. seed

    seed Well-Known Member

    Gun control is not about logic...It is about control of a potential threat to the powers that be. The theory is simple: take away guns from the little, uninfluential, non-special, common sheep and the few who are in power and or in control of it, will have a much decreased threat to their grip on power. It's quite easy to do, once you have control over the media and the unwitting cooperation of do-gooders who simply cannot grasp facts and statistics, and or are not even interested in them.

    The world is becoming an even more dangerous place than it already was...and that is directly attributable to ever-widening gap between the haves and the have-nots and the increasing oppression of the former over the latter. It has gotten to the point that it is noticeable even within the U.S., itself under the guise of "globalization". Slowly, but surely the differences between the working class here and abroad are beginning to crumble through out-sourcing and depletion of decent-salary jobs with decent benefits. We are beginning to slip in the category of quality of living and this does not please the populace in the slightest. But so long as they are led to distraction with outside threats, real or imagined they will be all too willing to make more sacreligious sacrifices of supposed inalienable rights. Good bye Bill of Rights and hello to quiet authoritarianism (quiet for as long as it can be). As a result, attempts are made to take away guns, increase numbers and powers of police, confiscate private property for the "common good", etc, etc.

    The biggest difference, of course between Australia and the U.S. in terms of gun rights is the 2nd Ammendment and the very strong pro-2A crowd (at least relatively so). Politicians still have to win elections and therefore have to pay attention to local constituencies...and that is why gun-rights advocates have made strides in protection and reinstatement of gun rights. But if it were up to the people in the executive branch, U.S. law-abiding citizens too would be disarmed. Unfortunately for these people, this presents them with a problem of appearances. The Republican party has traditionally been considered pro-2A. Fortunately for them, they have enough career-antis (including the flawed-platform Dems) running around to present bills they would sign into law, if the chance presented itself. But they can't appear to be the driving force behind anti-2A sentiments...they only have to appear as the lesser of two evils. It's a fine balancing act performed by Bush and his advisors. I know I will get slammed for saying so, but Bush is no friend to 2A...he is merely less of a threat in the present political climate...he will not initiate or publicly push for anti-2A legislation, but he will pass it if it somehow crosses his desk. He has only said so on more than a few occasions about different anti-2A bills. And so the battle will rage on.

    Australia, I feel for you...I really do. Anybody who has it worse off than us ********** 2nd-class citizens has got it real bad. But don't think for a second that real U.S. citizens can take their "rights" for granted. These "rights" are constantly being assaulted. U.S. First-class citizens just have some more powerful tools in their political arsenal to fight back. But it ain't easy.

    Good luck in your fight.
  12. Hawk

    Hawk Well-Known Member

  13. Rockstar

    Rockstar member

    It's a statistical fact, not theory, that violent crime in the U.S. would hardly exist, if guns and knives could be kept out of the hands of Democrats!
  14. Mongo the Mutterer

    Mongo the Mutterer Well-Known Member

    Geez Rockstar ... are those just the felons they want to vote?
  15. 308win

    308win Well-Known Member

    Any statistics on the underground gun market?
  16. captain obvious

    captain obvious Well-Known Member

    Not to hijack the thread too badly, but I've always wondered, in a case like Australia of recent, how do the people in the outback survive? I wouldn't ever want to live in an area that rural unarmed - what do they do about wild animals and such?
  17. daniel (australia)

    daniel (australia) Well-Known Member

    308win there's a bit of statistical info about. For example this paper showed that about 90% of firearms homicides are committed by unlicensed persons with unregistered firearms. As well, there are some conclusions that might be drawn from the fact that of the several million semiautomatic long arms and pump-action shotguns imported into this country only 640,000-odd were handed in when they were banned.

    captain obvious: If you were a landowner in the outback with clean record you'd qualify for ownership of a firearm, and there are a number of other bases for lawful ownership of firearms in the land of Oz. It isn't as if there are no firearms here: roughly 25% of all households have a firearms or firearms, leaving aside the enormous numbers of firearms "outside the system".

    BTW please don't take the above as endorsement of either our current system or of unlawful activity. It is not that long ago that you could walk into Kmart and buy a rifle or shotgun without any restrictions, licences etc., and clearly a fair number of people have chosen not to go along with a sysem whereby firearms ownership is a revocable privilege controlled by the State.
  18. Arch

    Arch Well-Known Member

    Actually just to elaborate on that Daniel, in Western Australia you have never been able to march into k-mart, and walk out with a rife. WA has had a licencing scheme in place since the 70s.

    Despite our "national gun laws", firearms control is always a state thing, and even now laws vary from state to state (not much though).
  19. daniel (australia)

    daniel (australia) Well-Known Member


    Point taken - the Wild West has had draconian and idiosyncratic firearms laws for a fair while, but on the eastern side of the continent (where 90%+ of the population is :neener: ) you certainly could march right on into Kmart and walk out with a selfloading longarm and as much ammo as you could carry.

    It wasn't that long ago either. I still have boxes of ammo with Kmart price stickers on them :( .
  20. Arch

    Arch Well-Known Member

    lol, so we are used to getting the arse end of things!

    But you are right. I mean less than 20 years ago we wern't such a gun-a-phobic nation. Like you said you could buy your ammo next to the baby dipers (not here though ;) ), they had cadets in school, all farmers had a few shotties and rifles for bunny blasting........and noone cared!

    Kind of funny isn't it, 20 years ago guns were everywhere, and whenever we hear about crime getting bad, we will always say, that wouldn't happen 20 years ago. Just goes to show, crime isn't related to guns, it's related to the health of a society. And in this self distuctive society, it's much easier for the polititions to point the finger at a minority....Jerks.

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