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BHO mag follower for AK hi caps

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by SSN Vet, Jul 18, 2007.

  1. SSN Vet

    SSN Vet Well-Known Member

    any body know where I can get either the Chinese or Yugo AK mags (or mag followers) with the BHO tail end?

    thanks in advance
  2. strat81

    strat81 Well-Known Member

    I picked up 7 Yugo BHO mags off the AR15.com equipment exchange about 2 months ago.

    Rumor has it Falcon Arms will be doing a run of BHO followers this winter.
  3. dstorm1911

    dstorm1911 Well-Known Member

    Ya need the whole Mag as the mag bodies are different and the Yugo BHO won't work in a standard mag body..... as for the Chinese Type 68 mags ya just need $$ they run about $42 ea as they are very rare since the T-68 was basically a full auto SKS that used AK type mags it was never imported in anything but parts sets and the 20 rnd mags bring a premium as they are original collector pieces.....
  4. Navy87Guy

    Navy87Guy Well-Known Member

    I've modified all my AK mags so the followers rise all the way up. Some are much better at holding the bolt than others. I can tell where the bolt impinges on them -- they are starting to get a pretty deep mark. I have a couple with a squared shoulder and they have more contact. The TAPCO plastic followers have the right shape, but after a few uses the edge is rounded over and the bolt goes home.

    It's ironic that Falcon lists followers and base plates among their best sellers, but they won't take the manufacturing time to produce them. Somewhere there's a crossover on the profit curve for lots of low price items and fewer higher priced ones. I can't imagine it would be that hard or take that long to knock out a run of baseplates and followers to meet the demand.

  5. dstorm1911

    dstorm1911 Well-Known Member

    "… yatta, yatta, yatta.

    Not true. Why is it that anybody with a keyboard is an instant expert?"

    I was refferin to outa the box Yadda yadda yadda as far as anyone with a keyboard... I don't know only been buildin AKs 15 years in fact....... we stock the largest inventory of original brand new AK parts in the countryfrom East germany, China, Russian, Bulgarian, Yugoslavia, Poland etc.. so hell.... no idea why........ Only been designin Aftermarket AK parts for a major supplier for the last 7 years....... must be the evil keyboard huh? Oh and ya might wanna visit a few dedicated AK sites same user I.D ya'll find ain't nothin instant bout me...... I've got a lil bit of a reputation for buildin some of the nicest rifles ya can buy..........

    Oh and yes we do have a few hundred of the T68 mags they are my personal favorite as I like the shorter 20s for Yugo underfolders..... pretty much all I use myself so I bought all Don would let go of the rest are for his 4 registered T68 rifles........

    Now if the poster wants to get into cuttin and welding he can simply make his own BHO followers very easily but I was assuming he was lookin at a drop in replacement.....

    Dstorm the instant expert who has maintained an 01 FFL, SOT2 and O7 for the last 10 years just in case I felt like building a few machine guns........ or few hundred
  6. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

    1. Everyone chill.

    2. Can someone answer this: what is the point of these followers? I mean, I understand the BHO feature, but am I correct in saying that once you drop the mag, the bolt will go back into battery? Or is there something to prevent this?


  7. Navy87Guy

    Navy87Guy Well-Known Member

    [quote='Coronach"]2. Can someone answer this: what is the point of these followers? I mean, I understand the BHO feature, but am I correct in saying that once you drop the mag, the bolt will go back into battery? Or is there something to prevent this? [/quote]

    There's a two part answer.

    The point is that you positively know when the magazine is empty, as opposed to pulling the trigger and hearing "click" - then not knowing whether you're empty or having a malfunction. I think a lot of people (myself included) who are brought up on semi-auto pistols and/or AR's like that.

    As far a keeping the bolt open, you are correct - removing the mag releases the bolt. The standard thing is to notch the selector lever. Once the bolt locks open on the magazine, you pull it back and hold it open with the selector lever. Obviously, you can reload with the bolt back or forward - it's all personal preference. The notched selector is a nice feature at a range with the RO wants to see the bolt back and the action clear.

  8. benEzra

    benEzra Moderator Emeritus

    I can see how BHO mags or a notched safety lever would be convenient for "showing clear" at the range (I use a homemade action flag instead, made from a dowel), but it seems to me that having the action slam forward when you hit the mag catch would be distracting, and trying to use the lever like the BHO on an AR would actually slow down the reload/recharge process.

    I can see how the let-you-know-when-it's-empty feature could be useful, though.

    Do empty BHO mags still drop free when you press the mag catch, if the BHO is engaged?
  9. benEzra

    benEzra Moderator Emeritus

    So the tension on the mag from the bolt pressing against the follower isn't enough to hold the mag in place if you release the catch, then? (I would hope not.)

    OK, makes sense. I could see how that could be useful if you are stowing the empty mag instead of dropping it, as well.

    Just for me, I think manipulating the safety during a mag change would slow things down quite a bit; I've found that what works for me is to hit the mag catch with the fresh mag and let the empty drop, insert the new mag, then yank the charging handle from underneath with the reloading hand (strong hand stays on the pistol grip), like this. But that technique does require dropping the empty. If you are reloading with retention, I think you are right that using the BHO mag/notched safety probably wouldn't slow you down. Do you typically charge the rifle and operate the safety/selector with your trigger hand, or your support hand?
  10. dstorm1911

    dstorm1911 Well-Known Member

    I'll add some pics later of the different followers, if ya can do some minor fabricating its not hard to duplicate them with standard followers, I don't have any pics on the puter of mag followers but here is a customers Rommy G kit with the notched Selector lever, I do em as standard with builds if folks want theres done, The yugos did some right from the arsenals....

    As far as mag changes as already mentioned ya engage the selector before removing the mag, The idea is to effectivly use cover to do your mag swaps loseing an issued mag was very bad in the Romanian Army, One of my cousins was whipped across his back(knotted telephone cords about 5 ft long and 10 strands to the whip, they covered his back with salt while 4 fellow soldiers had to hold his arms/legs spread eagle face down as a 5th fellow soldier did the whipping... if the soldier stopped before all the salt was dissolved he got the same himself... the scars are pretty gruesome) for leaving his rifle in a vehicle when he exited while in training if a seargent found onea your mags (the soldiers in the regular army where issued 7 mags with the rifle they had to etch the rifles last 3 digits on those mags so the correct soldier could be punished if one was found) another of my cousins told me about watching a drill instructor beat a trainee with a mag pouch holding 2 loaded mags in it because the soldier had dropped his empty on the ground and proceeded to advance without picking it up first..... The communist did not tollerate the American GAMER method of just tossing away mags for the sake of speed........... when re-supply arrives they will have plenty of ammo but no replacement mags it was your duty to treat an empty mag like your life depended on it......... because it would once ya ran outa mags from tossin em away ya were dead as now ya had no way to use your weapon.......

    When myself (9 years US Army) and my Uncle and 7 cousins (by marriage) get together its tough for me to tell any of our "War stories" all 8 of these men have scars from their boot camp..... life under a murderous dictator who's brother ran the Military if a single soldier failed it was the Seargents who got punished severally so they had good insentive to be very strict in training... ya never left your weapon out of arms reach unless ordered to do so and you NEVER dropped or left any of your issued gear on the ground... ever

    Attached Files:

  11. dstorm1911

    dstorm1911 Well-Known Member

    PICS OF BHO followers

    O.K didn't go into the shop today but do have a bunch of T68 mags layin around here and some Yugo mags so went ahead and took ya'll some pics of each, as ya can see the T68 is the easiest to copy and it doesn't require messing with the mag body as the Yugo does etc...

    I threw a hungarian 20 rnder in there for comparison purposes..its way hot here in Tucson today so I hadda just hurry and get ya'll some pics before I melted so sorry if they don't come out real great..

    Attached Files:

  12. dstorm1911

    dstorm1911 Well-Known Member

    continued from last post....... as ya can see the T68 mag followers don't require grinding out the stop dimples while the Yugo style do..... the T68 type can be made simply by bending a piece of sheet metal then welding it to the mag follower over the existing offset dummy the Chinese punch out the edges of the follower to negate the dimples in the mag body (note the cutouts in the pic of the two followers from the top, the same cutout on both sides of the follower even though it doesn't show in the pic)

    BTW, Notice I mark my personal mags to keep them with their particular rifles it also helps at public ranges to verify which mags are mine...... Any goos steppin Seargant wants to give me cr@p bout my mags hittin the ground (note the sand in the T68 mag- nope its not rust I dropped as it got super hot just in the few minutes I was settin up to take the pics) then I'd just have to emty a few out for him...... in him....... same difference ;)

    Have fun an try not to set any garages on fire ;)

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jul 19, 2007
  13. Don't Tread On Me

    Don't Tread On Me Well-Known Member

    Solution to problem that doesn't exist.

  14. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

    My off the cuff thought is that tha BHO combined with a safety selector with a notch AND the finger (or thumb) switch should be pretty fast, actually.

    I envision the drill would be like this:

    Run weapon dry. Bolt locks back on the BHO follower.

    Use firing hand to flip selector up, engaging the selector's BHO, while the support hand retrieves the full magazine.

    Knock empty mag out, rock replacement into place.

    Support hand returns to grip while firing hand flips safety back off, dropping bolt and chamnering a round.

    That sound about right?
  15. Gewehr98

    Gewehr98 Well-Known Member

    I guess the question is...

    With the BHO mag followers and tweaked safety selector, is it that much faster than this technique(Which I've been practicing in my garage for the last few days)? :confused:

  16. benEzra

    benEzra Moderator Emeritus


    As I see it, it depends on whether you want to drop the empty mag on the ground or not.

    I can see how a BHO wouldn't slow you down if you were retaining the mag in the normal fashion, but if you can drop the mag, then it's faster IMHO to just knock the empty mag out, insert the new one, and rack the bolt with the same hand, leaving the strong hand in firing position.

    Personally, my preference for "reload with retention" is to drop the mag on the ground while getting the weapon reloaded as fast as possible, then pick up the dropped mag from a crouch if/when it's safe to do so. If you are crouching to reload anyway, the mag isn't going far.

    I can see "don't ever drop the mags" for a military unit that's operating far from support for extended periods, but for civilian applications, dropping the empty mag probably isn't something to worry about. (Unless, of course, you are in a post-Katrina situation and are standing knee-deep in murky water, in which case you'd better not drop the mag if you might need it later...)

    FWIW, I saw that same video a few weeks ago, practiced it for a week, and then shot my first carbine match. None of the stages required retention or shooting to an empty magazine, so the knock-and-rock technique worked very, very well for me. There's no way to time it, but just watching others, I think I was about as fast on the mag change as most of the AR guys (certainly not significantly slower).
  17. MudPuppy

    MudPuppy Well-Known Member

    I'll look when (if...lol) I get home, but I have some mags that have the squared off followers. There are dimples in the mag body that keep it from riding up and working as a BHO device, but those can be dremeled off. I know the chinese are like that, but I *think* I have some/several euros like that too. hmm..

    I've also seen posts from folks that have made their own with an empty casing and JB or some epoxy--but that seems like a jam waiting to happen at the worst possible time (but they swear by it)

    As for notched safeties, Mako security makes one with an oversized finger ledge on the bottom that's awful nice. I'll look at my Yugo krink safety to see if it is like that, but it for sure has the notch (from the factory)
  18. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

    Gewehr98, I would say it would be faster, yes, though I don't know about "that much". Since you're practicing the technique, I'm sure you're aware of how much time it takes from the moment you get the mag rocked in to the moment that you get your support hand back on the handguard. Not a huge amount of time, but it's there. Looking at your left hand, you could go from mag-rock straight back to the handguard firing grip. How much time does that trim?

    Or, run the drill the way you would with an unaltered AK, then run the drill again, just using your index finger to mimic moving the selector up and down. You essentially cut that last step out, since you can be doing the safety/selector/BHO actions with your right hand while your left hand does something else.

  19. AK103K

    AK103K Well-Known Member

    I agree 110%.

    This is really just a training issue. All these "gizmos" do nothing in the real world, and actually cause problems.

    Just because a rifle does not have a BHO does not mean its inferior, it just doesnt have a BHO. I always thought the argument was silly. The rifle stops running, you reload it and start over. Whats the big deal? If anything, you ALWAYS know the rifle that doesnt have a BHO is loaded after you reload, because you ALWAYS recharge it, empty or not. I've had M16's and AR's that dropped a bolt on an empty mag more than a few times. How do you know for sure its loaded after the mag swap? If anything, the AK has taught me to recharge everything with a closed bolt after a mag change. Its the only way to be sure.

    The biggest thing here is, learn to run the AK as an AK. Dont try to make it an AR, because its not. With a little practice, the AK is not at all difficult to reload quickly if you need to, and closer to a M16 reload than you might think. Put those BHO mags in there and try to fiddle with non spec selector levers while trying to do a mag change seems to me like your making it MUCH more difficult than it need be. You dont need those silly batwing releases either. :)
  20. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

    Also, this mag change, if done properly and as fast as possible, still has to be slower than a comparable discard-the-empty AR mag change, also done properly and as fast as possible. This is because the AR mag can be dropped while the support hand retrieves the replacement mag. The AK mag waits in the magwell and has to be knocked out by the replacement magazine. There's a fraction of a second (at best) for that extra move to be accomplished that will always be there for the AK, whereas the AR magazine can just be slammed home. Straight insertion is also probably faster than rocking it into place.

    I freely admit that it's not a huge difference in time, and individual skill can easily trump the delay caused by the AK system (read: someone who can really run an AK and uses that drill will probably toast your average AR user).


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