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Discussion in 'Hunting' started by Mencius, Feb 17, 2013.

  1. Mencius

    Mencius Well-Known Member

    What do you think of using boat tail hollow points for deer hunting in a 308? I was thinking of using the 168 grain bullets.
  2. Bio-Chem

    Bio-Chem Well-Known Member

    Which bullet are you talking about exactly?
  3. v8stang289

    v8stang289 Well-Known Member

    If they are match bullets then I wouldn't because they most likely will not expand and will perform no differently than a FMJ. If they are designed for expansion and hunting large game then they should be fine.
  4. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

    I am not a big fan of BT bullets for hunting, unless they are bonded core, partition, or otherwise core-locked somehow.

    Otherwise, the boat tail jacket acts just like a Jacobs chuck in a drill press.

    One whack to loosen it from the taper friction fit, and the tool falls out.

    The same will happen to the lead core of a boat-tail bullet when it hits a game animal and starts to mushroom.

    IOW: Core / jacket separation.

  5. jmr40

    jmr40 Well-Known Member

    All bullets are designed to work a certain way. Any can be effective if used properly. You have described many match bullets designed for target shooting. I know some have used them for hunting successfuly. I'm not willing to take that chance. The Berger Hunting bullet is the exception. It is basically what you have described, but with a thinner jacket to expand quickly.

    Partitions, Accubonds, an Barnes TTSX bullets are designed to penetrate. They do a good job at that, but expansion is not as good as with some others. They kill game just fine, but you don't get the drop in their tracks reaction as often.

    I have no problem with BT bullets such as Hornady SST's, Nosler Ballistic Tips or Berger Hunting bullets as long as the shooter understands how they work. They tend to give fairly shallow penetration, but explosive expansion. As long as you put one in the lungs they will drop game very quickly. FWIW, I'd use the 168 Berger hunting bullet, not the match bullets in my 308. They are not the bullet you want for shooting fleeing game in the butt. Or for shooting larger game. These are what the Partitions, Accubonds, and TTSX bullets are designed for.

    Choose the right bullet for the job and use it correctly and they all work
  6. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

    After a bunch of years of messing with all sorts of 30-caliber bullets, I figure that in a .308, any 150-grain flat-base which gives decent groups around one MOA will do just fine to 400 yards, easily.

    HPBTs can easily make more mess than was intended. Not always, of course, but it sometimes turns out to be Yuck City. :)
  7. Grumulkin

    Grumulkin Well-Known Member

    That is the question.

    As some posters have mentioned, some BTHP bullets act more like solids; not that that's an always bad thing. Berger makes BTHP bullets specifically for hunting and I can attest that they work well. Some Barnes TSX bullets are also of BTHP design; no problem there either. Also, all those pretty bullets with the plastic tips are essentially of hollow point design. For those who think the plastic tip does more than make them pretty, protect the bullet tip or provide a slightly better ballistic shape, think again.

    If the desire for a BTHP design is for better perceived long range performance, I would say don't bother unless ranges are expected to be 500+ yards.
  8. osprey176

    osprey176 Well-Known Member

    Most 168 lead core bullets are match bullets.The 165's are usually the game bullets.Be sure you use bullets designed for the task at hand. I spent several hours tracking a deer hit twice through the lungs with a 168 hpbt a few years back.I needed to finish the deer after finding it.The wounds were all the same size,entrance,and exit.Doesn't' t matter how good the load groups if the bullet won't do the job when it gets there.
  9. Kachok

    Kachok Well-Known Member

    Serria BTHP aka Match Kings. NO, does not expand or yaw reliably at all.
    Berger VLDs. YES but only the Hunting version
    Barnes TSX. HELL YEAH Awsome terminal performance.
    Nosler Custom Competition. No idea never used them. Would not chance it, they were not designed for that.
    Hornady Match. Also no idea.
  10. splattergun

    splattergun Well-Known Member

    Most, if not all, states require expanding ammunition for hunting. If your choice is, for example, between Sierra Match KIng v Sierra Game King, choose the SGK for hunting, SMK for competition. Unless you really like tracking deer wounded by a clean pass-thru instead of walking up to an animal killed by significant trauma from a well-built game bullet.
  11. Kachok

    Kachok Well-Known Member

    Pass through or blow up, I have seen SMKs do both (not of my shooting) if they do yaw the thin jacket comes apart and you have a fragmentation device, if it blows up in the vitals it can make for a quick kill but that requires a healthy dose of luck and is not even remotely reliable from what I have seen, should that yaw happen early on that explosion will never reach the vitals and all you have done is make a really nasty flesh wound. If they don't yaw or yaw late you get a clean pass through and a fatally wounded animal you will be tracking for miles. Far too unreliable for my liking, I'll stick with the Game Kings they are remarkably reliable and effective, in fact too effective for these southern whitetail out of a 30-06.
  12. Grumulkin

    Grumulkin Well-Known Member

    Interestingly, solids are used for the biggest animals in the world; why?

    Some hunters use muzzleloader and shotgun projectiles that don't expand.

    Arrows don't expand.

    It's also interesting that some admantly want good penetration of a bullet while others want great expansion and a bullet that expands inside the animal, does't expand and doesn't pass through. Fortunately, there is a plethora of bullet designs that should be able to satisfy both parties.
  13. Kachok

    Kachok Well-Known Member

    Yes monolithic solids designed to create serious damage without expanding, you cannot compare the terminal damage from a large caliber flat nose solid to a 7mm pointy boat tail spritzer, night and day difference. Don't you think that if DU tipped armor piercing rounds made for as much trauma hunters would have been using them a long time ago? Large caliber solids are a whole different game, I can try to track down some of the studies I have read if you are interested.
    BTW I have arrow heads that expand, they are called mechanical broad heads you can get them at Wal-Mart :)
  14. Mencius

    Mencius Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the thoughts guys. I guess I have been kinda in search of a bullet that will be good for everything; hunting, punching paper, etc. I think I am going to go the other way and just get soft points or some sort of hunting ammo. I like the Remington Core Lokt and had two quick kills with them this year. Seem like they are reasonably priced as well.

    Actually, once this ammo hysteria dies back down I plan to get several hunting rounds in the ~165 grain range and see which prints the best and then start "accumulating" that.

    At the moment any 308 that is reasonably priced seems difficult.
  15. Grumulkin

    Grumulkin Well-Known Member

    Let me point out that not all monolithic solids are flat nosed and there is no requirement for hunting dangerous game that they be flat nosed. The reason they are used is for their better penetration. So, in some applications, using a solid in a small bore cartridge would be best. Granted, am expanding bullet creates more trauma and should kill faster provided it reaches vital organs.

    I know about mechanical broadheads by the way but as far as I know there is no State where bow hunting is allowed where there is a requirement to use them. In addition, I would wager that any solid bullet out of a centerfire rifle or handgun will cause as much if not more trauma than a broadhead.

    I believe that Remington Core-Lokts are a greatly under appreciated bullet. I use them in a 270 Winchester with excellent results both in accuracy and knock down ability. Of the 3 deer I've taken with them, 2 were DRT and the other only went maybe 10 feet but there wasn't bullet pass through which would be a problem for some.
  16. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Well-Known Member

    A friend has hunted with Sierra BT Game Kings, not Match Kings, for years.
    He says the cores do separate from the jackets.
    How does he know?
    He digs them out of DEAD animals.
  17. MCgunner

    MCgunner Well-Known Member

    I shoot Nosler 150 BTs at 2800 fps. I don't have a problem with meat damage and I've penetrated ONE 8 point from butt to neck, probably 4 feet of deer, with an exit wound. Never recovered a bullet even from a hog. Folks tell me that the BT is too explosive for deer and should NEVER be used on a hog. I just laugh at 'em. They have been improved over the years, but I've been shootin' 'em for 15 years and not seen a problem with 'em. I like the BCs. :D

    I shoot game kings in my .257 Roberts and my 7 mag. They ARE kinda explosive, especially at 3200 fps from the 7 mag, but I ain't had a deer walk away from one, yet.
  18. MCgunner

    MCgunner Well-Known Member

    Oh, dang, sorry, this thread is about hollow points. Well, the BT is a hollowpoint, just has a plastic tip stuffed in the point. :D

    Most of the hollow points I've seen are for match, would not trust one to open up. Wolf markets a HP for the 7.62x39, worthless as a hunting round regardless of what they claim. I prefer soft points for hunting and in that caliber, affordable (read cheap), the 154 soft points work.

    Were I the OP, I'd forget about HPs for hunting except in .22LR for rabbits.
  19. Kachok

    Kachok Well-Known Member

    What is wrong with Barnes and Sierra HP bullets? I don't ever hear anyone knowledgeable bad talking them ever, heck I use them. Had good luck with a few poly tips too, not going to say they best my Game Kings, but I would never hesitate to use a 6.5mm Ballistic Tip for deer again, impressive performance to say the least.
  20. MCgunner

    MCgunner Well-Known Member

    The 168s he's talking about, I just figured Sierra since it's a common match bullet, I've never seen 'em in a game bullet, only the Match Kings. The Game King is a soft point boat tail with similar BCs and I shoot them in two of my rifles. They works great. :D If it's made for shooting game, they probably work. If it's made for match, no.

    Barnes, sure, I've used 140 Barnes on hogs, work great. That's what they're designed for, expansion to the end of the hollow cavity, then it stops. It's an all copper bullet unlike the Match Kings I think the OP is referring to, whole nuther animal.

    I shoot a 150 Game King in 7mm. I have 150 Match Kings in 7mm I used to shoot in IHMSA from a 7mmTCU. Two completely different bullets with different purposes. The Match Kings are tack drivers, but I would doubt they'd expand. The hollow in the point is only there to reduce weight at the front of the bullet, gives it better balance and, thus, accuracy. When we're talking bench rest, 0.01 MOA could mean a win or a loss.

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