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Building Full Auto

Discussion in 'Legal' started by danprkr, Jul 12, 2009.

  1. danprkr

    danprkr Well-Known Member

    It has been alluded to in other threads that some have legally built full auto weapons for themselves. I was under the impression that it was not legal to build any new full auto except for law enforcement. Am I mistaken?

    Also, should I build said full auto for myself what happens to it when I die?

    Also, if a LEO buys a personal full auto what happens when they quit being LEO for whatever reason or die?

    I tried a search but couldn't find anything so if these questions have been answered feel free to just direct me to the correct links. Thanks.
  2. freakshow10mm

    freakshow10mm member

    You cannot build a machine gun unless you are a Class 2 NFA weapon manufacturer, like my company. We can make machine guns out of sheer boredom. You cannot.
  3. danprkr

    danprkr Well-Known Member

    That's what I thought, but some have alluded differently. Anyway, the line of thought led me to the other questions also, and I'd still like to know those answers if anyone has them.
  4. Kindrox

    Kindrox Well-Known Member

    You or a LEO can buy a pre-86 (pre-ban), subject to local law since with the right forms and tax stamp it is legal at the federal level.

    But I think the gist of your question is if a LEO has a post 86 MG and then retires. Legally the MG never belonged to the LEO, it belonged to the department.

    Legally the LEO officer has to give it back. A department in NY or somewhere back east got into some trouble by having department guns in the hands of non-active duty officers. Of course they got a slap on the wrist or less.
  5. 2RCO

    2RCO Well-Known Member

    I think some guys in jail for 10 years or so did the same thing they just forgot the Class 02 part.
  6. freakshow10mm

    freakshow10mm member

    A post 86 machine gun is possession of the agency who may issue it to an officer. It is not a personal weapon nor ever can be. It is department property and will always be treated as such. As long as the officer is active they can have it. They retire, they must give it back to the agency.

    If you own a fully transferable (pre 1986 domestic or pre 1968 import) machine gun and you die, it becomes part of the estate. The person in charge of executing your estate will either take possession on a Form 5 or transfer it to a lawful heir on a Form 5. If you have something like this in your collection, I would explicitly state your wishes and include a copy of the relevant Form 5 for them to fill out. If no one wants it, it must be destroyed and ATF notified or they can be notified and will pick it up.
  7. danprkr

    danprkr Well-Known Member

    Well shoot. There goes my winter machine shop project :p

    Anyway, thanks for your time and the info.

    Actually I have another question, what about private security agencies? I know some of the 'contractors' the US military uses have full auto. How are they getting them?
  8. freakshow10mm

    freakshow10mm member

    They are subcontracted by the Atomic Energy Act or similar, which allows employees and subcontractors under that act to have them. Corporations like Blackwater USA are also 07/02 FFL/SOT so they can make them at will.
  9. danprkr

    danprkr Well-Known Member

    Hmmmmmm, it wouldn't be the first corporation I've chartered. May be worthwhile some day when I have more money and time. Be a great part time business, build full autos and run around to shoots renting them out. May not make a profit, but a great way to enjoy your work if you have enough money to live on.
  10. billhardy

    billhardy New Member

    Note from bill

    Last edited: Jul 12, 2009
  11. SHvar

    SHvar Well-Known Member

    LEOs cannot buy machineguns, their department can make a department authorized purchase (at a much lower price) of fully auto weapons.
    I was looking at prices out of curiosity when I bought my last hat for work, a few hundred less than retail prices, which for this supplier were a few hundred less than the typical gunshops who were gouging for profits for so long, and still are.
    The prices at that time for a S&W M&P15 (at this LEO supply store) were only $850-$900 if I remember right, but the gunshops were charging $1600. This place never raised their prices on the semiauto versions, and always had them in stock, but then again I wasnt interested in those rifle they carry in stock (S&W, Stag, Bushy, Colt, all were standard M-4s).
  12. freakshow10mm

    freakshow10mm member

    In certain circumstances it is legal, such as my company being in the business of being a NFA weapon manufacturer. It is not a correct blanket statement that it is illegal. A way a civilian non-SOT can build one is if they are doing it for a government agency. They file the form, build it, transfer it to the agency and done. Completely legal. This is happening every day.
  13. freakshow10mm

    freakshow10mm member

    My company makes a standard flat top M16 automatic rifle for $995. For another $350 we include a case of ammunition and 6 magazines.
  14. barnetmill

    barnetmill Well-Known Member

    Here is provocative question: Let's say I have an boat registered in the united states. Can I build a full autoweapon on boat when I am not in us waters if I am on the high seas? The gun would be tossed overboard before re-entering american waters. Legal or not?

    By the way my only boat is 17 ft mako that needs to be repair so I am not planning on doing this.
  15. Quiet

    Quiet Well-Known Member

    US flagged vessels have to abide by US law, no matter where they are.
  16. danprkr

    danprkr Well-Known Member

    billhardy - For the record - I do not intend, nor was I asking about doing anything illegal. Some stuff written in other threads on this forum made it seem as if people were making full auto for themselves. I assumed that they wouldn't be so stupid as to do it illegally and then brag about it on line. So I inquired out of curiosity that is all.

    In reality I don't see a need for a civilian to have a full auto except for fun. Tactically from my perspective a civilian is hugely unlikely to be in a position to need FA. I do think they should be allowed, but I don't see a need tactically. If the situation arises when I need a full auto I'm betting there will be plenty of them laying on the ground.
  17. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Well-Known Member

    Note the operative words.

    If you'll look, there are many valid reasons other than fun, and I can see them all.
  18. Corey

    Corey Well-Known Member

    For those of us old enough to remember, prior to May, 1986 you could file an ATF Form 1 and build your own machine gun. If you got tired of it you could sell it on a regular Form 4 transfer. There are plenty of AR-15's that were legally converted this way.
  19. Zoogster

    Zoogster Well-Known Member

    Something else left out or forgotten by many is the ATF did NFA amnesties.

    All illegaly held machineguns could be registered and become legal under an amnesty up until 1971.
    That means guns held in violation of either the NFA of 1934 or the GCA of 1968 were still being legaly registered even up until 1971.

    Prior to 1969 the military also allowed many trophies to be brought back from battle. Others illegaly brought some back even later, including select fire AKs and other weapons as late as the start of the Vietnam war that were then given the opportunity to be legaly registered under the ATF amnesties as late as 1971.
    That means weapons illegaly possessed since before 1934, or aquired anytime since, including as late as the start of the Vietnam war, were legaly registered as late as 1971.
    Whether legaly or illegaly purchased and then illegaly retained, illegaly aquired,
    or illegaly manufactured, or illegaly converted from existing weaponry, they all were given the chance to be legaly registered during amnesties.
    So there is weapons that would otherwise not match the legislation timeline that were legaly registered. Like foriegn full autos made between the 1968 GCA prohibition on importation of foriegn full autos, and the last 1971 amnesty.

    Most similar programs in the world have been offered by a government to allow them to collect information on where items they do not like are being held. They enact harsh legislation for illegal possession, then allow people to escape the penalties through registration. Future legislation or actions at a later date then target those weapons or thier owners after the government feels the usefulness of the information gathering has approached its end.
    As a result most people did not use the amnesties to register illegal weapons in the US, but some did.
    Still the official estimates based on previously legal full auto sales, and war trophy bringbacks is that only a small fraction of illegaly held select fire weapons were registered.
    The lack of success of the program from 1934-1971 or even until 1986 to register the majority of the weapons is probably why those who did register were not targeted later as normaly happens in the world.
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2009
  20. Zoogster

    Zoogster Well-Known Member

    Oh as an additional note to the above, some people that did use the amnesties were actualy targeted and prosecuted for violating the law, while others were allowed to legaly register thier weapons.
    Whether you were prosecuted when trying to register or allowed to proceed was completely discretionary.
    That is why in 1971 the Supreme Court put an end to such amnesties, saying they violated the 5th Amendment by requiring people to self-incriminate.

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