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bullets take a walk

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by murf, Mar 3, 2012.

  1. murf

    murf Well-Known Member

    thought i would share this experience i had today.

    was shooting my 357 mag. blackhawk. the load was 125 xtps. the mv was about 1600 fps (very warm). anyway, i loaded five rounds but only shot two because the primer cup was flowing back into the firing pin hole and tying up the cylinder.

    out of curiosity, i decided to measure the coal of the remaining three rounds in the cylinder. i figured that the bullets might have walked out a bit, due to the heavy recoil and the medium crimp applied to the rounds.

    well, the original coal of the rounds (the ones still in the box) is 1.583". the coal of the three rounds i pulled from the cylinder are 1.589", 1.591" and 1.593".

    that is quite a bit of walking! i'm going to re-crimp the rest of the rounds and see if that cures the problem. if not, i'll check the expander plug diameter on the sizing die.

    anyway, i thought i'd pass this on for your enjoyment and amusement.

  2. gamestalker

    gamestalker member

    The amount of jump your experiencing, though worth addressing, is mild in comparison to what I've seen. I load exclusively with H110 and 296 for the magnum wheel guns, and I can tell you from experience that nothing less than a full roll crimp is the rule of thumb here. Over the years I've had a few that jumped completely out of the mouth, which locks the cylinder up real nice and tight. The reason for those intermitent moments of bullet jump, was the result of me thinking I could get by with just a taper crimp if done properly. Even though I managed the jump for the majority of rounds, I eventually got tired of having to watch my OAL's so I broke down and bought roll crimp dies.

    Are the crimps still in the canelure?
  3. murf

    murf Well-Known Member

    yup. they only jumped .010". the amazing thing, to me, was that i only fired two shots and the bullet only weighed 125 grains. this usually only happens to me with the heavy bullets. that's why i posted.

    doesn't do much for accuracy when each round's coal is increasing .005" every shot!

  4. Josh45

    Josh45 Well-Known Member

    I just bought some H110 with some 125 GR FP TMJ bullets I have. The only problem is they don't have a caanelure to set the roll crimp in. The area they used to be crimped in is heavy and if I did apply the crimp there, These rounds can and have before been set back from recoil.

    After reading this, I am much more concerned about how to go about this. Shoot one at a time? or just crimp below the old crimp area as much as possible? But then that itself would dig into the bullet and would affect accuracy, Wouldn't it?

    I'm asking this here because you mentioned H-110 already. Thank's for the tip about having to make sure it is a full crimp tho
  5. murf

    murf Well-Known Member

    what weapon are you shooting these bullets out of?

    do you have any other pistol powders available?

  6. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

    Was the case mouth in the deepest part of the cannelure?
  7. Josh45

    Josh45 Well-Known Member

    The revolver I am going to be using is a Ruger GP-100 3 in
    I have a few other powders available which I have already used but was interested in trying H-110.
  8. gamestalker

    gamestalker member

    It seems odd to me that you have bullets intended for the .357 mag. that don't have a canelure? What diameter are they? I'm just guessing, but I bet those FMJ's are for an auto loading cartridge / application. I can't imagine anyone manufacturing a bullet for a wheel gun, that doesn't have a canelure.

    Be careful, bullets jumping out of the case can lead to mass detonation, which obviously leads to other bad stuff.
  9. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

  10. Josh45

    Josh45 Well-Known Member


    these bullets are 125 GR TMJ by Speer. They was made for Lawman if I am not mistaken and they were bought from RMR last year. I think he still has some of them. I know it is odd to not have a cannelure for a bullet that goes to a wheel gun. I have shot them out of this gun before and have done fine.

    The diameter of the bullet is .357


    That is what I was thinking. I have done a taper crimp on them before that nearly put a roll crimp into them. I have the 4 die set here and I believe that my FCD is roll crimp as is my seating/crimping die.

    So I will just adjust just enough to get almost a roll crimp started.
    Just like those pictures show is what i was thinking.
  11. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

    A roll crimp die will not do what the pic shows.
  12. Josh45

    Josh45 Well-Known Member

    Your right, It isn't a taper crimp die.
    I just crimped another .357 a minute ago and it ended up doing a slight roll crimp.

    BTW, Murf

    I apologize for hijacking your thread. I did not mean to. I just thought it would be O.K to ask a quick question here seeing as it involved what i was going to use and what my concern was.
  13. murf

    murf Well-Known Member

    no problem, josh. the op was intended to inform everyone of the risks of bullets walking out of the case and to invite anyone with this particular problem to voice their concern.

    more power to ya!

  14. murf

    murf Well-Known Member


    recrimped those 125xtps. loaded six, shot 5 and pulled the last round. did it twice.

    measured the coal of the pulled rounds - 1.591" and 1.597" (unfired coal is 1.583").

    even with the heaviest crimp i can apply, these rounds are walking out of the case. i guess i will have to measure the expander plug and see if it needs to be a bit smaller.


    yup, the expander plug measures .356". not enough to hold the .357" diameter of the xtp bullet. no wonder!
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2012
  15. k9kev88

    k9kev88 Well-Known Member

    sorry, but I don't understand exactly what happened... I have been reloading for 9mm and just bought a GP-100 .357 that I intend to reload for soon. Sounds like a problem that I need to understand.

    murf - are you saying that the recoil of the gun caused the other bullets to move in their casings (walking)? what makes this happen??

    I'm trying to understand what the "walking" part is...
  16. murf

    murf Well-Known Member

    another way of saying "coming out the end of the case due to recoil". usually happens with heavy recoiling loads shot in light weight revolvers. the last round fired in a revolver is subject to the recoil of the first five shots.

    the cummulative effect of the recoils can pull the bullet out of the case. in the extreme case (no pun intended), the bullet will pull out far enough to stick out the end of the cylinder. this causes the cylinder to lock up when the exposed bullet hits the frame when the cylinder is rotated.

    i'm having this problem and decided to share my "fix" of the problem. my fix is to call rcbs and see if they can sell me a .352" expander.

  17. k9kev88

    k9kev88 Well-Known Member

    thanks murf.

    maybe I'll take a caliper with me when I go to shoot my first round of reloads!! :)
  18. murf

    murf Well-Known Member

    couldn't hurt!

  19. beatledog7

    beatledog7 Well-Known Member

    Curious here. Read the thread and don't understand why walkalong was using a heavy taper crimp vice roll crimp in those pictures when the bullet has a cannelure.
  20. murf

    murf Well-Known Member

    because josh45 bought some bullets without a canelure and wants to shoot them in a gp100. walkalong was just using that as an example of a taper crimp.


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