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C&R Pistols

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by Picknlittle, Aug 13, 2007.

  1. Picknlittle

    Picknlittle Well-Known Member

    Besides the 7.62 Nagant, CZ-52 and CZ-82, what other C&R handguns are out there? It seems these three are about all I see in the surplus listing of rags like Shotgun News.

    What is another good resource?
  2. MartinBrody

    MartinBrody Well-Known Member

    Don't forget East German & Russian military Makarovs.

    There are plenty of handguns out there more than 50 yrs. old, those you see in shotgun news are just what is coming over by the crate right now, and usually is cheap. But don't overlook 1911s, P-38s, and the tons of other cool old pistols out there.

    Check out Empire Arms, he usually has more than just what is surplus o' the day.

    Also check out this C&R forum for ideas.
  3. jonnyc

    jonnyc Well-Known Member

    Add Lugers, Nambus, Lahtis, Tokarevs, Mausers, etc.
  4. MartinBrody

    MartinBrody Well-Known Member

  5. bluetopper

    bluetopper Well-Known Member

    The three you mentioned pretty much sums it up as far as I know on the current market. All Makarovs have been sold and the ones you see from time to time are on the second hand market.
  6. woad_yurt

    woad_yurt Well-Known Member

    Online auction sites have tons of available H&Rs, Iver Johnsons, S&Ws, etc, etc, etc.
  7. JBP

    JBP Well-Known Member

    J&G (http://www.jgsales.com/index.php/c/c-r-guns/cPath/290) is selling the Polish and Romanian Tokarevs as C&R. I picked up one of each and had them out to the range Sunday. Both performed flawlessly. If you were getting just one I would recommend the Romanian. It's $60 cheaper ($10 extra for a Polish w/o cracked grips) and comes with an extra brand new mag (wrapped and loaded with cosmoline). Mine was also more accurate the the Polish model.

    AIM (http://www.aimsurplus.com/) had Star B 9mm. 1911 style except for the safety grip.
  8. Gator

    Gator Well-Known Member

    Any handgun made before 1957 :)
  9. woad_yurt

    woad_yurt Well-Known Member

    Any handgun made before 1957 as long as it's been also classified as C&R eligible. Just because it's 50 years or more old, it doesn't automatically become a C&R gun. It needs to be approved as such first.
  10. joab

    joab Well-Known Member

    Aren't the Star Model Bs listed at AIM C&R
  11. Gator

    Gator Well-Known Member

    Sorry, but that is completely wrong. C&Rs are anything over 50 years old, and what is on the list. Check out the definition of a C&R on the ATF website.
  12. woad_yurt

    woad_yurt Well-Known Member

    In order to be on that list, it has to be approved as C&R eligible first. How do you think it gets on the list?
  13. Gator

    Gator Well-Known Member

    Of course, but that has nothing to do with the 50 year rule. The list is of guns that were deemed C&Rs, but not yet 50 years old, at the time the list was created. Guns are added to the list today by request, but nothing is ever taken off, even if they are now over 50 and no longer need to be separately listed.

    Read the definition of a C&R on the ATF website.
  14. Ed Ames

    Ed Ames Well-Known Member

    As I read it....

    There are three ways a gun can gain C&R status. "To be recognized... firearms must fall into one of the following categories"

    1) Firearm manufactured at least 50 years prior to today's date, not including replicas thereof (in other words a commercial replica luger isn't a C&R even though an original commercial Luger is)

    2) Firearms certified by the curator of a city, state, or federal museum which exhibits firearms to be a curio or relic

    3) Any other firearm which derives a substantial part of its monetary value from the fact that it is novel, rare, bizarre, or because of its association with some historical figure, period, or event.

    A brand new gun can be a C&R. All you need to do is convince the BATFE its primary value is as a collector's item. The brown C&R list has instructions (page 9 and 10) for getting a determination for a gun or family of guns. A used gun that is indistinguishable except by serial number from a million like it can be a curio because of who owned it or how it was used, which is why there are so many specific serial numbers called out in the list. A gun marketed as a "special edition" (and for which a premium was charged) is also going to be a C&R basically from day one which is why the published C&R list has so many entries like "Smith & Wesson, City of Los Angeles 200th Anniversary Commemorative model 19 revolver, cal. .357" ...

    The troublesome part is "original configuration".... the assumption is that the pistols Arafat wore when he met with Clinton would cease to be collector's items if you (not Arafat) added tritium sights, a krylon black finish, and compensators. That's why most companies won't sell Tokarevs as C&R even thought they might otherwise qualify... they've been modified from original configuration. That's not a CFR issue though. It's a judgment call of the BATFE.

    I could be wrong about part of it, but that's what the BATFE material says.
  15. Novus Collectus

    Novus Collectus Well-Known Member

    Actually any handgun made before today's date (November 22nd) in 1957 barring any leap year calculations possibly is automatically a C&R. ;)
  16. Gator

    Gator Well-Known Member

    Yer right!
  17. Hkmp5sd

    Hkmp5sd Well-Known Member

    As long as no permanent changes are made and you retain the original parts and can easily restore the gun to original configuration, ATF claims it is still C&R elligible.
  18. gcrookston

    gcrookston member

    Basically, there are hundreds, maybe thousands on the batf list. Certainly broad strokes like 50 year old hand guns and rifles, but there are individual exemptions and additions made all the time.

  19. Autolycus

    Autolycus Well-Known Member

    Once it is a CFR could you modify it?

    If I found an old WW II 1911 that had all original parts could I then have a gunsmith change parts for me to make it more modern?
  20. Novus Collectus

    Novus Collectus Well-Known Member


    The only thing is if you change the configuration you can no longer sell it as a C&R unless you changed it back before transferring.
    There is a complicated deal with a few certain C&R rifles that would be illegal to change the configuration of unless one replaced a certain number of parts with American made parts, but I don't think there are any handguns that this odd situation would apply to.

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