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Cap Fit

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by rodwha, Jan 9, 2013.

  1. rodwha

    rodwha Well-Known Member

    When I first received my Old Army my father also gave me a few old tins of Remington #11's. They would slide off of a few of the nipples so I bought some CCI #11 magnums.

    These often require a second strike to fire.

    I bought nipples from ToTW that were designed to be used with CCI #11's, but behave exactly the same as the stock nipples.

    I recently went by BassPro to pick up #10's. They only had the Remingtons. I tried them once I got home and found that they seem to fit perfectly. I haven't been to the range to see, but they seem good to go.

    Wish they would have had the CCI's in stock as they are much cheaper!

    I recently viewed a chart of cap sizes (diameter):
    CCI #10 0.160"
    CCI #11 0.166"
    Rem #10 0.167"
    Rem #11 0.166"

    How is it that the Rem #10's are a hair wider, yet fit snuggly when the #11's slide off of a few nipples?
  2. rodwha

    rodwha Well-Known Member

    Are there any differences in their ability (#10's) to ignite powder, namely Triple 7? Or is it the same amount of compound in a different size?
  3. Steel Horse Rider

    Steel Horse Rider Well-Known Member

    Are the #11's bottomed out on the nipple or are they only going partially on? If they are not bottomed it would explain the misfires and the looseness.
  4. rodwha

    rodwha Well-Known Member

    They can't be bottoming out. But they are fitted on quite tight. I've even used a dowel to give 'em an extra push.

    They do seem to fire more often now, and I initially chucked the nipples in a drill and slowly ground them on emory cloth, but I don't think it really did much of anything.
  5. unknwn

    unknwn Well-Known Member

    It's really hard to say which caps/nipples "fix?" I dislike the most:
    "pinching" caps to keep them from falling off, pushing caps on with a dowel because they won't bottom out when installed otherwise, -or- possibly the worst -resort- of all - filing or sanding/polishing nipples so that the caps will fit.
    I think messing with the nipples cones has the least chance of good results since on most revolvers you have six of them to do and getting them to all fit the same just doesn't bode well .
    Beyond that, I just can't bring myself to play the "pinch" game and it's possibility of promoting chainfires.
    If the manufacturers would only just get it right and produce parts that actually work.
  6. rodwha

    rodwha Well-Known Member

    Yea, I don't like it either.
    And I want my revolver(s) and rifle(s) to all use the same stuff so as not to need to stock up on or carry afield several different things.
  7. Fingers McGee

    Fingers McGee Well-Known Member

    Because the nipples are tapered, not straight.

    There are a couple threads on caps & nipples on CasCity and 1851remington forums. Eiher one will give you information overload.

    I have slix Shot nipples on a few of my C&Bs now. #10 and #11 Remingtons and #11 CCIs work perfectly on them.

    351 WINCHESTER Well-Known Member

    I have found the newer Remington no. 10's to be perfect for my Ruger. They really did improve their older caps about 5 years ago.
  9. Pancho

    Pancho Well-Known Member

    Rodwa, it's unclear did you try using the CCI#11 magnum caps and the regular CCI #11? With the same result?
    As I understand it the TOW nipples were designed for the standard CCI #11. If I were you before I did anything else I'd call TOW they are very helpful.
  10. rodwha

    rodwha Well-Known Member

    I did not try standard CCI #11's. I haven't seen them anywhere.
    I did call ToTW. They said it would be easier for me to chuck them in a drill and slowly grind them down with sand paper, which I tried.
    The Rem #10's seem to fit perfectly.
    It'll be a while before I get to the range...I have some .50 cal RB's coming soon, and will go then.
  11. arcticap

    arcticap Well-Known Member

    makos goods didn't indicate that Remington #10's are wider than CCI #11's, and for all practical intents and purposes neither did mykeal. All we really know for sure is that the Remington #10's are longer, and not necessarily wider.
    And that the longer Remington #10 caps fit lower on to the taper of the nipple.
    The information is below:

    And regarding mykeal's chart, he indicated that accurate measurements were so difficult to obtain that there's a possible error factor of + or - .002 t0 .004.


    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 10, 2013
  12. Smokin'Joe

    Smokin'Joe Well-Known Member

    Oversize caps are easily and symmetrically re-sized using a small socket from a ¼'' ratchet set. Either a 5/32” or 4mm size will work.


    Simply place cap on hard flat surface open side up and apply downward force with the socket. A gentle tap may be required. If the re-sized cap resists being removed from the socket gently grab it with pliers and rock it back and forth.


    I modified my socket slightly with a pointed stone on a Dremel tool to provide a forcing cone of sorts.
  13. rodwha

    rodwha Well-Known Member

    That last chart is the one I got the size info from.
    Nice tip Joe. A pain, but can make something work if need be.
  14. SleazyRider

    SleazyRider Well-Known Member

    If you can get your hands on a metal lathe---preferably one wth collets but even a small 3-jaw will work---set your compound rest at 5 degrees, lock the carraige in place and take a light cut. Have a tin of #10 caps at the ready and keep experimenting to get the perfect fit as you turn down the nipple. Once you get it right, so long as you don't move the crossfeed or carraige but only the compound screw, the other 5 nipples can be turned in minutes to precisely the same size without further experimentation or measurement. For me, this made all the diffference in correctly seating the cap and absolutely reliable ignition.

    And since we're talking about cap fit, yes, the Remingtons are indeed taller; in fact, just this morning I had to modify my inline capper to accomodate the taller #10 Remington caps. I took a hardened button-head screw and cut off the threads, then spun it in a Dremel. With a second Dremel, while it spun, I "sculpted" the head to be T-shaped, then with the first Dremel stationery, cut a few slots with an abrasive disc to form a crude cutter. Using this T-cutter in the Dremel, I went to town on the inside rails of my inline capper, removing several thousandths of brass. I followed up with some judicious sanding with 220-grit to further remove burrs and polish the rails. It now handles #10s perfectly!

    It gives me pause to think about how soldiers and pistoleros in the mid-19th century handled these problems, likely around the campfire in the evenings. I'm thinkin' their caps fit much looser, and perhaps they held them on with a dab of wax. I also wonder about the percentage of misfires and jammed mechanisms due to errant caps, too.
  15. kbbailey

    kbbailey Well-Known Member

    Forgive my ignorance and inexperience, but my instincts tell me that would be a good way to have my whiskers,eyebrows,hat,fingers, and shirt blackened and smoking, and my pants around my ankles 'ala Yosemite Sam.
  16. mykeal

    mykeal Well-Known Member

    And after you've gone to all the time and effort to remake the nipple cones to fit that one batch of caps,.....
    These things cost 4 cents piece, give or take. People who like to stay in business don't go to a lot of time and expense building products that cost 4 cents each to 0.0005" tolerances.
  17. Patocazador

    Patocazador Well-Known Member

    I found that Remington #11 and #10 will fit my 3 sets of nipples for my ROA but none of the others will fully seat. Winchester and CCI caps are the same - just different packaging. CCI Magnum caps will produce a better flame than normal caps IF they fit your nipples.

    Other than the Remingtons, the rest seem to have less taper and the base is narrower thus causing them to bind before fully seating on the ROA nipples.
  18. Smokin'Joe

    Smokin'Joe Well-Known Member

    Fear not, kbbailey, all of my hair follicles remain intact. Actually the technique I describe does not even disturb the ignition compound inside the percussion cap. Only the sides of the cap are affected.
  19. rodwha

    rodwha Well-Known Member

    I find it interesting, especially since I highly doubt I'll be able to find nipples for all of the guns I eventually get to all use the same size/brand cap.
  20. arcticap

    arcticap Well-Known Member

    It always seems to be revolvers that need a different brand or size of caps, and that's mostly because they're not single shots and have more moving parts.
    My rifle nipples have rarely ever had a problem with any current brand of #11 caps fitting them.
    It doesn't bother me if the #11's don't fit a revolver's nipples perfectly because it's an option to be able to squeeze them for a tigher fit, just like with some rifles. Most all brands of #11 caps universally fit as far as being large enough to fit almost every current nipple made.
    And then there's the revolvers that may need #10's for easier capping, best performance & the tightest fit, and also based on their owner's demands.
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2013

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