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Carry Gun Paradigm Shift

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by doc540, Nov 24, 2013.

  1. doc540

    doc540 Well-Known Member

    XDS in .45 ACP sold after getting it back from the recall (serious trigger issues)

    carried the custom Colt CCO for two months - 8 rounds of .45 ACP

    One of my firearm mentors convinced me that shot placement trumps caliber. (And I've been a .45 ACP guy.)

    Now I am carrying an ugly, sunrise-dependable Gen3, Glock 19.

    16 rounds of Barnes all-copper 9mm.

    25 cent trigger job = smooth, 5 lb trigger

  2. sig228

    sig228 Well-Known Member

    Glock 19...ugly is in the eyes of the beholder... Personally, I don't see ugly. I see functional and reliable and effective.
  3. doc540

    doc540 Well-Known Member

    compared to my custom CCO, it looks like Nancy Pelosi

    wait, I take that back :eek:
  4. A post bordering on starting a caliber war.
  5. doc540

    doc540 Well-Known Member

    post focus: shot placement is King

    can't control what other direction it might take :)
  6. sig228

    sig228 Well-Known Member

    Thanks, that image in my mind just ruined my day....
  7. CDW4ME

    CDW4ME Well-Known Member

    I have 1911's in 45 acp but nearly always carry a Glock 23/32 or 27/33 depending on attire

    I like a big 45 bullet, but I can appreciate the benefit of having additional rounds at my disposal.
    7 + 1 of 45 acp 230 gr.
    13 + 1 of 40 S&W 180 gr.
    (extra magazine with either)

    Also, since I carry the compact model 27 sometimes there is no difference in shooting by going with the larger 23; if I chose the 1911 I would introduce another variable- a safety that must be manually disengaged.
  8. mtrmn

    mtrmn Well-Known Member

    Somebody on one of these forums said that 1911's are the guns you show your friends. Glocks are the guns you show your enemies.

    I carry a 1st gen Glock 19 and have for like the last 15 yrs or so. My reloads with Speer 124gr Gold Dots.
  9. doc540

    doc540 Well-Known Member

    Not trying to start a pro/anti 1911 war.

    Just saying I decided to go with 16 rounds of 9mm (and a 15 round extra mag) and plan on shooting as accurately as I can shoot my 1911 in .45 ACP.

    just one man's choice
  10. Hometeached1

    Hometeached1 Well-Known Member

    That's funny, I started out with a glock 19, and now I carry a glock 30sf, granted one of the main reasons I got the 30 incase JHPs don't open up with winter clothing. Still like my 19, might carry it in the summer when people have less clothing on. I still like as many rounds as I can have, yet still grip the pistol well. On a side note I have some four legged predictors out here in the sticks.
  11. HexHead

    HexHead Well-Known Member

    Are the front and back straps serrated or smooth? If serrated it's a Gen2 Glock.

    They made a very small run of 19s as a special order by a police department that were Gen1. They do occasionally show up on the market.
  12. Tomac

    Tomac Well-Known Member

    All handguns are relatively poor "stoppers" regardless of caliber or bullet used. Shot placement and sufficient penetration are paramount, all else is secondary.
    That's why I carry a 15+1 SIG P2022 9mm.
  13. eldon519

    eldon519 Well-Known Member

    I actually recently standardized my auto loaders on the 9mm Glocks for much the same reason as you. I've got a Glock 19 and Glock 26. I saw similar advice from prominent instructors and terminal ballistics authorities emphasizing shot placement and multiple hits to decisively neutralize threats, and for me 9mm is the best choice.

    That said, I do still have some magnum and big bore revolvers for range fun.
  14. armoredman

    armoredman Well-Known Member

    I can't stand Glocks...I'd rather be surrounded by pictures of all the Glock models ever made then have one picture of Ms Pelosi staring me in the face. Heck, if people will un-elect her, I'll BUY a Glock!

    Back to the OP...*ahem*, I believe shot placement does matter, but the illogical extension of this is that everything should be a 22lr, because of very high mag capacity and very low recoil. I think 9mm works well for both shot placement and damage inflicted, with modern high quality self defense ammunition, but I also will never, ever give someone grief about carrying 45ACOP, 40SW, 357, 38 Special, etc., hey, it's what works for YOU.
  15. doc540

    doc540 Well-Known Member


    just happen to have plenty of both of these on hand:

    Caliber: 9mm Luger +P
    Bullet Wt.: 115gr CORBON Self-Defense JHP
    Velocity: 1350fps
    Energy: 466ftlbs

    all copper Barnes
    Bullet Wt.: 115gr DPX
    Velocity: 1250fps
    Energy: 399ftlbs
  16. chieftain

    chieftain Well-Known Member

    The only requirement in a serious fighting weapon is reliability. I agree most folks should not carry a 1911, because of the needed knowledge base, and time to maintain it. The good news is that today we have a large number of reliable handguns to choose from. Still tops in reliability is the quality revolver, bar none. But todays selection of pistols is quite broad. One can be picky but most of them are good.

    Please do not confuse civilian/police durability with military reliability and durability. Two different ballparks when applied to small arms.

    Caliber is simple. For semi-auto's it's either 9 or 45. Many folks I respect like the 40S&W but I have yet to see or hear of a reason for it's existance, over the 9 or 45. Knowledgeable quality bullet selection is what is important regardless of caliber.

    I have used both the 45acp and 38spl (when I did my job, the caliber did it's job) in combat, and seen the 9mm in action in several of those same actions. They were all military in nature. The handgun was only used when my primary weapon went dry at a point that the Black hats didn't want to give me time to reload soon enough for me to prevent new entries in my Health Record Book. Needless to say I succeeded, they did not. Understand I felt that when ever I was using a handgun, I was just staying alive, I fight with a rifle.

    Pick a good reliable weapon for your mission statement, LEARN IT! Not just to shoot it, learn how to maintain it to it's smallest component, change your springs and in some cases, pins on schedules, and keep to it. Clean it when you use it. Just like your vehicle, teeth and body. Exactly the same issues.

    As a former Marine DI this isn't advice, it's gospel. Never saw a man die BECAUSE he cleaned and maintained HIS OWN weapon. I have seen several die and get wounded because they did not.

    Unless your mission requires it, large number of bullets is rarely "required", but can't hurt within reason. Don't think of possibility, stick with probability. I could get over run by an armored company of North Koreans on the way to the supermarket, but most likely will not.

    I am equally at home with a 6 shot revolver, which I carried for years as I did a 8 shot 1911, 13 shot SIG 228, or a 15 shot Walther PPQ or HK. Nothing wrong with any 9mm Glock, but I subjectively don't care for them. I recommend Glocks to many folks. Owned my first Glock back in the mid to late 80s. I don't care for many compact weapons either.

    Go figure.

  17. Old Dog

    Old Dog Well-Known Member

    Meh. 1911s are for those who can master a more complicated platform, desire an accurate pistol with a superior trigger pull; Glocks are the guns the bean-counters can show to those who approve their budgets.

    Oh. I understand, really (even though I'm at heart a 1911 guy). At any rate, I do believe we've spoken to this topic quite often, not long ago in this thread I brought up much the same concept:
  18. mtrmn

    mtrmn Well-Known Member

    OK you busted me. Mine is serrated with little squares molded in the grip frame. But I have had this gun since our sheriffs dept first went to Glocks and I bought it from one of the deputies. My only defense is that I have NOT studied the history of these Glocks and their "generations"-I simply assumed that since the gun is so old (actually bought early 1990's but didn't start carrying til later) it had to be 1st gen. There is no rail or any other fancy stuff on it.
  19. C0untZer0

    C0untZer0 Well-Known Member

  20. RBid

    RBid Well-Known Member

    STRONGLY disagree.

    Reliability is priority number 1, but making a Kel Tec PF9 100% reliable would not make it a serious fighting weapon. Handling characteristics, sights, some ergonomic issues, etc can contribute to or take away from a weapon's efficacy as a "serious fighting weapon".

    Handling characteristics are badly underrated.

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