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Carrying NFA firearms

Discussion in 'NFA Firearms and Accessories' started by CarolusIV, Mar 23, 2011.

  1. CarolusIV

    CarolusIV Member

    I recently had a leather scabbard holster custom made for my SBS (mostly for my own amusement, but also for hunting/range use), and I was wondering if there are any stipulations regarding open carry of NFA weapons in a general sense (specifically in Arizona). I have looked, and can't find anything explicitly forbidding the practice, but I just wanted to get opinions from y'all.
  2. DoubleTapDrew

    DoubleTapDrew Well-Known Member

    I don't think it's any different legally than a title 1 firearm, although don't be surprised if you get a LEO that's uninformed with the laws and wants to hassle you.
  3. Ron James

    Ron James Well-Known Member

    Why would you want to carry a NFA firearm in such a manner, are you expecting a Indian raid or perhaps a shoot out at the OK corral? And because I can is not an answer:) Yes, you will be stopped, just make sure you have your paper work handy.Before the flames start,Yes, I live in Arizona and been a life member of NRA for 40 years and yes I own a few NFA firearms.:banghead:
  4. AlexanderA

    AlexanderA Well-Known Member

    In the case of machineguns (a subset of NFA items) note that Maryland, South Dakota, Arkansas, Montana, Wisconsin, Connecticut, and Virginia are "Uniform Machine Gun Act" states.

    The Virginia version of the UMGA provides, in part, as follows:

    § 18.2-290. Use of machine gun for aggressive purpose.

    Unlawful possession or use of a machine gun for an offensive or aggressive purpose is hereby declared to be a Class 4 felony.

    § 18.2-291. What constitutes aggressive purpose.

    Possession or use of a machine gun shall be presumed to be for an offensive or aggressive purpose:

    (1) When the machine gun is on premises not owned or rented for bona fide permanent residence or business occupancy by the person in whose possession the machine gun may be found;
    (2) .....
    (3) .....
    (4) When empty or loaded shells which have been or are susceptible of use in the machine gun are found in the immediate vicinity thereof.

    § 18.2-293.1. What article does not prohibit.

    Nothing contained in this article shall prohibit or interfere with:

    (1) The possession of a machine gun for scientific purposes, or the possession of a machine gun not usable as a weapon and possessed as a curiosity, ornament, or keepsake; and

    (2) The possession of a machine gun for a purpose manifestly not aggressive or offensive.

    Conclusion: Be careful. Carrying a machine gun in Virginia (or any UMGA state) off-premises could create a rebuttable presumption of guilt of a felony. That is, it would be up to you to prove that your carrying was "manifestly not aggressive or offensive." I suppose that target shooting at an established range, or participating in a historical reenactment or display, would be non-aggressive purposes. Routine carrying on the street? You probably couldn't rebut the presumption.
  5. jmorris

    jmorris Well-Known Member

    Not "open carry" but if I am taking the hit in speed an SBR costs it's going to be suppressed and there is no better place for the weakling to be than handy.

  6. Quiet

    Quiet Well-Known Member

    For AZ...
    With an AZ CCW you can legally conceal carry any weapon. This includes Title 2 firearms (AOW, MG, SBR, SBS).
    You need to make sure you have your AZ CCW permit and a copy of your NFA paperwork with you, when you go about legally conceal carrying a Title 2 firearm.
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2011
  7. PTK

    PTK Well-Known Member

    You're very up-front about being anti-gun. Honest of you. :)

    Life member of NRA? That's nice, still anti-gun.
    Own NFA items? Super, you're still anti-gun.

    At least you can admit it. That does indeed take a big man.
  8. kalash

    kalash Well-Known Member

    Alex.... what kind of laws could you be breaking if you use a SBR for home defence. I keep a m4 next to the bed but I have a colt 6933 11.5 at the dealer. When it gets here would I be breaking any laws keeping it bed side with a loaded mag as long as I lock it up when I'm not at home? I'm in VA also.
  9. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

    FULL STOP. The OP asked about the law. Let's not bring anti-gun arguments or fear of LEO hassles into it.

    Quiet seems to have answered the question succinctly. If that's all the OP wanted to know, are we done here?
  10. Ian

    Ian Well-Known Member

    Having seen 3 center-mass hits fail to immediately kill a rattlesnake, I have considered getting a double-barreled 12ga pistol (AOW/SBS) for carry myself. A 12ga will stop a snake RIGHT NOW by blowing it into multiple pieces. Easier to hit a snake with that than a .45, too.
  11. AlexanderA

    AlexanderA Well-Known Member

    SBR or full automatic? The Virginia "Uniform Machine Gun Act" applies only to full automatics.

    If it's a full automatic, properly registered with the feds and with the state, and kept on your own premises, then what you would have to worry about is the proximity of the ammo raising a prima facie case of "offensive or aggressive purpose."
  12. AlexanderA

    AlexanderA Well-Known Member

    Just to complete my thought -- the prima facie case of "offensive or aggressive purpose" could be rebutted if there was a clear defensive use, on your own premises. But you would almost certainly have to go to trial on this. The "Uniform Machine Gun Act" is basically a prosecutorial tool.

    As long as it's an SBR and not a full automatic, and it's registered with the feds, it's treated like a handgun under Virginia law.
  13. Ron James

    Ron James Well-Known Member

    To PTK, Because Arizona allows concealed carry, why do do you think I'm anti -gun because I think it is rather silly to walk around with a SBR in open carry. lets see, I served 27 years in the Army, retired a CSM, been on a number of Army shooting teams, won several awards in RVN, been hunting and shooting since I was 12 yrs old, held concealed permits in 5 states, worked two years in LE, and that's the best you can come up with, anti -gun because of a wry comment about unnecessary open carry of an odd weapon?Come on guy, don't fall back on that old saw, every one is anti-gun that doesn't agree with you?:D:D
  14. LHRGunslinger

    LHRGunslinger Well-Known Member

    How about in PA?
  15. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

    PA issues a "License to Carry Firearms." In the definitons relevant to the code it says:

  16. LHRGunslinger

    LHRGunslinger Well-Known Member

    Thanks Sam. You are awesome.
  17. dprice3844444

    dprice3844444 member

    jm,nice car rack
  18. Jim K

    Jim K Well-Known Member

    Hi, AlexanderA,

    I don't know about Virginia, but MD courts have ruled that if the MG is registered with the state (not just with the Feds), it is assumed not be be used for aggressive purposes, and can be loaded at home, taken to the range, etc.

    But in all states, a person carrying a long gun (not a handgun) concealed on the person or in a vehicle may run afoul of the hunting laws and be considered a poacher.

  19. AlexanderA

    AlexanderA Well-Known Member

    Jim Keenan wrote:

    Virginia courts don't appear to have gone that far. The situation in Virginia seems to be that of "deliberate ambiguity" and "selective enforcement." Non-registration (with the state) is just one of four factors, any one of which can create a presumption of "offensive or aggressive purpose." That said, I've taken my FA guns to reenactments, shoots, etc., with no problem.

    See http://www.bighammer.net/mg.html
  20. CarolusIV

    CarolusIV Member

    Jmorris, that's an excellent setup. All of you guys have been really helpful.

    Just to be clear, this isn't an EDC setup. I just wanted to be sure that I wouldn't get jocked if I stop somewhere on the way to or from the range/middle-of-nowhere-desert.

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