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Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by caracalproblem, Feb 14, 2013.

  1. caracalproblem

    caracalproblem New Member

    After having read multiple reviews done of the caracal C and after intensive research I purchased a Caracal C from Buksh Elahi Lahore on Sep 29th 2012. After the initial clean up and testing I started putting it through it's paces so I could use it as my CC. All the senior members here have stated that at least 500 bullets should be fired from a weapon before it should be considered for defensive carry purposes. In about a months time I had put about 250 Chinese red box 115 grains rounds through the caracal. All this while I had been meticulously maintaining the weapon, observing it's wear and tear and cleaning it after every use.
    On November 16th 2012 my brother wanted to accompany me to my farm (about an hour and half from city) and test the weapon out for himself since I had been raving about it.
    I handed my brother the weapon, he fired the first round without any hiccups, I was looking downrange when my brother fired the second round. To my horror right after he fired the round he fell to the ground in a heap. I ran over to him and turned him over. His face was completely covered in blood. I could make out a hole on top of his eye and blood pouring out of it. For a moment I was paralyzed with fear, thinking the worst, that the projectile had entered his skull. I could only think of his 2 children at the moment in shock. Thankfully in about 10 seconds he started to respond screaming he could not see, I picked him up and took him to the car and started driving back towards the city. In about 5 mins he got his vision back but was still bleeding. The closest hospital was 1 hour away and this drive was one of the most testing times of my life. I had called back to the farm and one of my workers told me the slide had broken in 2 but I was still not sure if anything was lodged inside my brothers skull.
    After the tortures drive I got to the hospital and got an X-ray done. I was too scared to look at it myself, legs shaking in terror. I just handed it to the doctor to let him give me the news. To my relief it was a flesh wound and nothing was lodged inside his skull.
    My brother received 8 stitches and had a severe concussion not to mention a permanent scar on his face. Luckily he fully recovered, if the slide had hit him an inch below he would have lost an eye.
    After the incident I emailed Caracal, explaining to them of this incident but got no reply. I wanted to confirm with them if this was a quality control issue or a design fault inherent in all their weapons.
    I have attached pictures of the handgun after I came back the next day and recovered the weapon from where it had fallen. The slide was completely sheared in 2. I had inspected the weapon a day before and it did not even show a slight sign of any wear and tear.

    Again I will reiterate, I have been extremely careful with the weapon. Cleaning it after every use, applying proper lubrication etc. I have also gone over the incident multiple times in my head, trying to figure out if I could have prevented this catastrophic incident but I always come up short.
    I would advise you to please refrain from using this handgun as I would not wish this kind of ordeal even on an enemy.
    Stay Safe.

    There is a great debate on this going on at the following site: http://www.pakguns.com/showthread.p...re-ALL-CARACAL-OWNERS-PLEASE-READ-AND-BE-SAFE
  2. Fishbed77

    Fishbed77 Well-Known Member

    Personally, I'd be more suspect of the Chinese ammo than the design of the Caracal pistol.
  3. David E

    David E Well-Known Member

    Chinese ammo has blown up more than one gun in a variety of calibers.
  4. murphys_law

    murphys_law Well-Known Member

    Second that
  5. ku4hx

    ku4hx Well-Known Member

    If that had been a failure at my post retirement place of employment (nuc power plant) there'd be all sorts of failure analyses done on the slide and other failed components. But of course the failure was not even in this country so who knows what will or can be done in that area.

    Given the barrel appears to be intact and not distorted, I'd suspect sudden catastrophic slide failure. But all guesses are weighted equally pending actual analysis results.
  6. ATLDave

    ATLDave Well-Known Member

    Even if overpressure ammo was the cause, I'd expect the gun to do a better job of channeling the force. It's not hard to find stories of pistol kabooms, but from the ones I've seen, most of them seem to vent the gasses either downward or upward. Frames and slides may be wrecked, but a clean slide fracture (with half of the slide ending up in the shooter's forehead!) is a problem. In short, that's a very bad mode of failure, even if the failure started elsewhere.
  7. CAR

    CAR Member

    If it had been an over pressure round, I would think that you would have blown or otherwise damaged the barrel and the cartridge case would be split.

    Is there any damage to the barrel or ringing in the bore that may indicate that there was an obstruction? Do you have the cartridge case?

    To be frank, I am concerned about the way the slide appears to have broken cleanly in two.
  8. tipoc

    tipoc Well-Known Member

    Looking at the pics...is that dirt ground into the inside of the slide? It also looks like it is imbedded in the inlets in the grip area of the frame just above and behind the trigger guard as well as in the areas under the slide for attachments. It looks almost like dried mud or sand. If it was a ka-boom how would that much powder residue be thrown around and how would it end up in such odd places? I've also never seen residue of that light sand like color.

    I also have the same question CAR does. Except for possible damage to the link I don't see damage to the barrel. Just that same odd dust like residue.

    Looks like some of the dust is on the white cloth background. It's on the top of the slide and surrounds the front sight. Way to much of it to be powder residue.

    Can others see this or are my optics fried?

    I've added the above bit from the op. Dust could have got there from being in the dirt but note where the dirt is. Had the gun been dropped and left overnight and undisturbed, the dirt would not be distributed the way it is.

    Last edited: Feb 14, 2013
  9. mdThanatos

    mdThanatos Well-Known Member

    The dirt is most likely from the shooter falling and the gun landing in it. This did not occur in the US, from what I have gathered it occurred in Pakistan and on a farm where there would be a lot of dirt. It looks like the stuff around here in the desert.
  10. psyopspec

    psyopspec Well-Known Member

    I'm very relieved that your brother won't have any lasting injuries, and wish him a speedy recovery. Was he wearing eye protection? Regardless this a a good reminder for everyone to wear your eye pro every time.

    I too hope that you can learn more about how this happened. Will stay tuned.
  11. tipoc

    tipoc Well-Known Member

    I'm familiar with dirt, with sand and with mud of a variety of types. We have those things in North America.

    Why would it not shake off? How did it get inside and outside the slide? And around the barrel?

  12. mgmorden

    mgmorden Well-Known Member

    Most guns are oiled prior to use. Oil causes dirt to stick.

    I remember dropping a recently cleaned (and well oiled) pump shotgun into some dry sand one morning at a duck hunt. The dirt/sand got into the action and it stuck in there so bad I had to make a trip back home to clean it out before the gun would function again.
  13. ClickClickD'oh

    ClickClickD'oh Well-Known Member

    Looking at the pictures on page 6 of the original thread is enough to keep me from ever buying one of those.
  14. tipoc

    tipoc Well-Known Member

    Okay, lets say the very light dust stuck to the areas which were oiled or over oiled. Though it looks more to me like the gun was partially buried in light sandy dirt which also got wet and for more than one day. Note that it is partially impacted in internal areas of the slide. But leave that and move on.

    Unfortunately we can't see any damage to the barrel except possible the lugs.

    Look at the area of the slide interior to the rear of the breech face. This is the area that would sit over the magazine when the slide is in battery. There is clear damage there. Did a round go off in the mag with the slide in battery? How would that damage occur? Am I seeing correctly?

  15. PabloJ

    PabloJ Well-Known Member

    I know nothing about ka-booms, but it looks like plastic is tougher then steel. One learns something new every day.
  16. tipoc

    tipoc Well-Known Member

  17. blackrussian

    blackrussian Well-Known Member

    Is the above statement true?

    I just read that Caracal offered a replacement pistol and to fly the shooter to UAE. Is that correct?
  18. C0untZer0

    C0untZer0 Well-Known Member

    If you're firing Chinese fricking ammo through the weapon - you're not being "extremely" careful with it.

    I'm not saying the ammo caused the failure - I'm just saying you have a contradiction.
  19. C0untZer0

    C0untZer0 Well-Known Member

    And why the link to pak guns?
  20. blackrussian

    blackrussian Well-Known Member

    Because it happened in Pakistan. Also, some allegations were made that the pistol was a replica and not a real Caracal model.

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