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CC in NJ possible because of HR822?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Ranger30-06, Mar 6, 2012.

  1. Ranger30-06

    Ranger30-06 Well-Known Member

    Hello everyone. I was in my favorite little gun shop poking around for a Makarov the other day, and several guys were talking about how Jersey was going to try to pass shall issue CC if HR822 passes. They were apparently also saying that it would be several hundred for the license, which includes mandatory training or something like that. He was saying that it wouldn't be because of gun reasons, but because of the ridicules amount of money that could be made if the bill passed.

    Does anyone know anything about this? NJ is as bad as IL and CA when it comes to the police and knowing the gun laws, and some Sheriffs are known to hold FID and Pistol Purchase paperwork for as long as possible (6 months). This could be an awkward bill for them to pass, but I still have hope... :rolleyes:
  2. tyeo098

    tyeo098 Well-Known Member

    You need to have been issued a CCW in your home state to qualify under HR822.

    Much like a drivers license, you cant live in NJ and have a VA license (for too long anyway). If you DO get a NJ CCW (heh, good luck) you are good in all 50 states (minus DC and IL, as they do not have CCW laws to begin with, and are exempt.)
  3. Ranger30-06

    Ranger30-06 Well-Known Member

    tyeo098: I'm not talking about the reciprocity of having an out of state permit, but I'm talking about the rumor that NJ will go from may issue to shall issue in order to generate additional revenue to the states income if 822 passes because they apparently don't want to be left behind on the bandwagon.

    I'm looking for info on this from anyone that has heard likewise and/or links to the subject. I know the NJ Second Amendment Foundation filed a lawsuit about this not to long ago about the unconstitutionality of out CC permit system, but apparently a North Jersey Judge shut it down real fast. My gosh how I wish North and South Jersey were split... It's nice down here and the people (except for the Camden area) aren't that bad! And talk about gazillions of turkeys/deer...
  4. infmp32

    infmp32 Well-Known Member

    It would be most welcome that's for sure, but like you said Ranger the fees would likely be exorbitant. Can't see any CCW classes being free like hunter education. They'd have to overhaul the whole system really or it'd just be a bigger scam than it is now. This state is so screwed up with gun laws that I wouldn't have a hard time believing the current FID/Pistol Permit system would stay in place and CCW placed on top of it. Utterly ridiculous. I hadn't heard anything about it yet though.

    Hey Johnny, I'm from right next to Paramus in that Washington/Westwood/Emerson/Oradell cluster.
  5. Ranger30-06

    Ranger30-06 Well-Known Member

    infmp32: While yes, the system is a huge disaster, it really wouldn't be hard to change. The paperwork is already there. You can apply for a CCW, it'll just be denied instantly and you'll have to put down that you were denied a permit for the rest of your life...

    All they need to do is change it to "shall issue", and if they wanted to do the whole "required training" thing, I'm sure it could be worked out. Yea, $500 would be ridicules (the cost that they were throwing around in the gun store), but it would be a step in the right direction.

    Johnny Dollar: Totalitarian? lol Don't you think that's a little light? :D Maybe more like "I am zee ruler! Don't dare challenge me or you shall be punished by laws our own government cannot comprehend!"

    But yea, the pine barons are nice; lots of jobs out there too with construction and heavy equipment!
  6. xXxplosive

    xXxplosive Well-Known Member

    The recent decision in Maryland Courts yesterday really puts NJ Law at question.
    Same "Right To Show Cause" found to be unconstitutional may impact us here at some time down the road but a CCW in NJ.........I would be hard pressed to believe that could happen without a legal struggle of some sort. Here in NJ they have a way of writting laws that are at best undecernable, even for LE......
  7. avs11054

    avs11054 Well-Known Member

    Sources please.
  8. AlexanderA

    AlexanderA Well-Known Member

    If H.R. 822 passed, you'd have an anomalous situation in which out-of-state residents (say, Virginia residents with carry permits) could carry in NJ while NJ residents, for all practical purposes, couldn't. It's this anomalous situation that would create political pressure for it to be rectified (and not so much a need or desire to raise revenue by bleeding permit-seekers). Note, however, that there are two ways the anomaly could be "rectified" -- one would be to change the NJ permit system to "shall-issue." But the other way would be to abolish the permit system altogether, and make NJ no-permit like Illinois or DC. Given the general anti-gun tenor of NJ politicians, which of these two scenarios is most likely? Moral: be careful what you wish for.
  9. xXxplosive

    xXxplosive Well-Known Member

    True............living here in NJ we are very susceptable to laws that carry stiff jail terms for normal everyday procedures carried on by residents of other states....ie. restricted guns list, magazine capacity limits, no castle doctrine, restrictions on driving while in the possession of a firearm (most direct route to and from a gun shop or range only), must register / sign for ammo purchases, FID cards for retail gun purchases, types of permissable ammunition in possession, 1 gun a month law....etc.

    Any violation of these is jail time with costly severe penalties......residents of other state as close as neighboring PA want nothing to do with NJ firearms laws...and who could blame them.
  10. Ranger30-06

    Ranger30-06 Well-Known Member

    Well living here, I can say that:
    • getting a permit to just purchase long guns,
    • separate permits for every pistol you want to purchase,
    • 1 handgun a month,
    • no mags over 15 rounds,
    • a long list of banned-by-name rifles,
    • pistol ammo registration,
    • no cc unless your up tight with the governor,
    • restrictions out the wazoo on pistols,
    • semi auto rifles and shotguns,
    • our law that says you must retreat as far as possible and be within 7 yards of the attacker to shoot someone in self defense,
    • and no rifle hunting even though all of our game land is overwhelmingly secluded,
    it all gets really old really fast.

    This is barely even touching on the laws. We can't even buy BB guns without an FID card! :fire:

    AlexanderA: I know what your saying, but banning the system altogether is retarded on their part because it wouldn't change a darn thing. HR822 requires other states to acknowledge the CC permits of other states, so NJ can stomp its feet all it wants, but it won't get its way.
  11. gunguy0829

    gunguy0829 Well-Known Member

    I grew up in Lebanon, N.J and now live in Colorado. The gun laws in jersey are so rediculous. Here in colorado, its a shall issue, open carry is no big deal pretty much everywhere exept denver (city ordinance ). I would never in a million years move back to jersey just because of the gun laws. My brother still lives there and is going through all the stuff required, wow, i like being able to walk into a store, find a gun and within 45 minutes, i am at the range shooting that gun. How do you all do it? I hope they change the jersey gun laws.
  12. xXxplosive

    xXxplosive Well-Known Member

    Guess we're just all programed here by our elected officials and state & local LE.

    7 yards of the attacker to shoot someone.....? never heard that one......sounds like a misinterpretation there to me.
  13. gunguy0829

    gunguy0829 Well-Known Member

    not to mention no permits needed for anything except ccw, which for $200 and that includes the class you WILL have a ccw, as long as there is no legal reason. There are a ton of legal ways to cc in colorado with out a ccw, i.e. hunting, in your car, home and that includes your property or place of business, loaded hand guns are allowed in your car wherever you want to put it. And we have the make my day law, no laws on distance for self defense, however cases have been lost when the victim was too far from the attacker to prove their life was in danger.
  14. gunguy0829

    gunguy0829 Well-Known Member

    xxxplosive...many states actualy have laws similar to that one, not sure of the valididy of that one, but they do have those laws.
  15. Ranger30-06

    Ranger30-06 Well-Known Member

    I thought it was too, until about 2 dozen people ranging from cops to range officers to gun store people/employees all told me at different times how I would be in as much trouble as the crook if I shot him from more than 7 yards away and if he wasn't moving towards you can't shoot em. It's pathetic...
  16. bhesler

    bhesler Well-Known Member

    The CC proposal with the $500 fee was floated by a Senator from Cape May in 2010.


    There are currently companion bills in the legislature which would remove the justifiable need, approval by judge, and extend from two to five years. These were discussed in the activism section.


    These proposals were written by members of opposing parties, so there is some interest on both sides of the aisle.
  17. xXxplosive

    xXxplosive Well-Known Member

    Ranger.....if your referring to some reference to the 21 ft. rule, that has absolutely nothing to do with written law.
    Everybody is an expert .........Geeezzz.
    IMO.....they are referring to a random distance in which it would be difficult to prove your innocense if indeed you could avoid the confrontation.....one might believe that in that distance you could possibly seek cover or may retreat...... or maybe not......just see some of the documented knife attacks at that distance and one soon realizes how fast an armed assailant can cover that distance in attack mode....literally split seconds.

    Please don't take the words of guns shop workers or even NJ LEO's for written law....they know mostly less than the community here. LEO, although officers of the court are not lawyers or judges and gun shop workers............OMG.

    You can always research the NJ statutes on your own for exact answers to some of your questions.....not word of mouth.....Please.
  18. Ranger30-06

    Ranger30-06 Well-Known Member

    Thanks bhesler. That's what I was hoping for. Turns out the CC we may have now will be better than what was proposed before! What?!? NJ can do something better?!? :rolleyes:

    xXxplosive That's nice to know... When a hundred people all started saying the same thing, I just kinda took it as fact. I know there is a clause in there though that says you have to retreat before you can shoot an intruder...
  19. xXxplosive

    xXxplosive Well-Known Member

    Actually, here in NJ there is no retreat law on the books for being in your residence / home or place of business......you might want to check it out and get clear on the issues.
  20. Ranger30-06

    Ranger30-06 Well-Known Member

    Citation? I can't find anything that supports either side...

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