Chain Fire Really Possible?

[Foto Joe]

I think what we need to keep in mind here is that chain-fires do happen, not often but they do happen. Our beloved Italian Repro's are NOT Colts or Remingtons and as such their machining tolerances and final fitment may not be on par with a Rolex watch. The chambers may or may not be all perfectly round, in line with the forcing cone or even straight for that matter. I've got one gun that consistantly gives me "one" flyer for every cylinder, me thinks that there's a chamber on that particular gun that probably snuck past the QC guy while he had a plate of pasta on his lap.

Although what we shoot aren't for the most part originals the design does allow for the errant chain-fire. There is indeed room for the escaping gases and projectile to escape long before critical pressure builds in an out of battery ignition. But as Arcticap stated, 'tis recommended that you keep valuable body parts out of the line of fire and protect your eye balls when sending one of those little round lead balls down range to kill a piece of printer paper, golf ball or what ever evil is at the receiving end of the gun.

 

[farmer7]

I believe I'll try that fireball experiment at night, and I will dress accordingly.

That's my Rem in the dark! Loaded with a full charge of pyrodex (50 grains).

 

[44 Dave]

Why is the hammer back, from blow back through the nipple or recoil?

 

[brushhippie]

Dang 50 grains is alot for a 58.

 

[farmer7]

The hammer is back as it is a long exposure photo. Open the shutter , fire the flash to capture the pistol and then fire the pistol to capture the discharge and then close the shutter. So the exposure of the pistol is actually a second or so before firing the pistol. Hence the hammer being cocked.

As for 50 grains I normally use about 24 grains, 50 was just for maximum effect!
I have read that most BP pistols are safe to fire with a full cylinder of powder, although it is totally inefficient, inaccurate and would cause premature wear. Please correct me if that is wrong. What is the general opinion?

 

[Hellgate]

Pyrodex-P is very spongy (compressible). I've never done it but wondered if you could fill the chamber to the mouth and ram a ball down far enough to clear the barrel. Is that how you got the 50gr (by volume I suppose)?

 

[brushhippie]

No Sir, the way I understand it they test them to three times recommended pressures, I dont think you could damage it, I meant it was just a big ol load, I didnt know that much would fit!

 

[farmer7]

Ah ok, thanks for that! Thought I'd maybe done something super dangerous!

Yes that's how I did it. I measured 50 grains, was just short of filling to the brim, maybe 1mm short, then rammed the ball on top. Just checked my notes, got me 1171 fps.
And yes measured by volume.

 

[Hellgate]

With the exception of the Walker Colt with 777, I have always believed after having read it multiple times in older BP publications that you cannot overload a C&B revolver. If you put a heavier, longer hunk of lead into the chamber you will have less room for powder. I've shot double ball loads in my 36s all the time but can only get about 10 or 15 grs powder under them. I've inadvertenly over loaded my Colts and couldn't get the ball deep enough to clear so I'd just knock the gun apart, rotate the bulging chamber around to full cock aligned with the barrel, replace the barrel & wedge, cap and shoot it out. Whittling lead was never my fine point.

 

[brushhippie]

Damn thats awesome fast! The only way Ive heard of blowing up a BP revolver is to overload a conversion cylinder, I just dont think you can overload one, what doesnt burn up just comes out the muzzle, now in a Colt you can stretch it and damage the barrel behind the wedge.

 

[44 Dave]

I have had chain fires on a couple occasions, only when not lubed over bullet.
I had a mold that threw balls that didn't leave that little ring of lead.
In my situation the powder was burning"backwards" and was more of an inconvenience and mess of smoke.

 

[44 Dave]

I have had chain fires on a couple occasions, only when not lubed over bullet.
I had a mold that threw balls that didn't leave that little ring of lead.
In my situation the powder was burning"backwards" and was more of an inconvenience and mess of smoke.
I don't have that mold any more

 

[raa-7]

I havent had it happen to me,knock knock,I use the wads I make myself,but I do keep a small tub of crisco with me if I use an increased load just to be on the safe side,but I can,t see it happening if I get that good shaved lead ring.If you feel the need to use it then use it right ? I guess they didnt have time for all that in the wars.Could you imagine You have guys shooting at you and you have a small tub of crisco or whatever in your hand trying to smear some in the chambers !Your buddy next to you just might shoot you instead I know I'm tired now! good night. -ron-

 

[BHP FAN]

I think they did have chain fires. It would be OK, even desirable as long as the revolver was pointed North.

 

[Jaymo]

I use wads under the ball and grease over the ball. That way, I get the softening of the fouling via the grease, and the scrubbing action of the felt wads.

I have a theory that the over-ball grease keeps the cylinder from binding up because it prevents the ingression of powder fouling between cylinder and axis pin.

 

[Jim K]

During the Civil War, they used cartridges, made of paper, foil, and skin. with foil being the least common.

The quantities were considerable. The U.S. arsenals alone produced over 40,500,000 rounds of .44 Colt revolver cartridges, not counting the millions more made by contractors or included in the purchase of revolvers requiring a different size than the Colt. I have read one firearms historian who says revolvers were not much used in that war; I really wonder who was doing all that shooting!

Jim

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

No Sir, the way I understand it they test them to three times recommended pressures, I dont think you could damage it, I meant it was just a big ol load, I didnt know that much would fit!

Howdy

I am not sure how percussion revolvers are proofed, but I can tell you that depending on the cartridge, SAAMI spec for proof cartridges runs between 30% and 50% higher than the maximum published pressure. No where near 3 times the max pressure.

Regarding chain fires, yes they are absolutely possible, although I have not had one for over 40 years. Back when I first started shooting C&B it was standard practice to glob some Crisco over the ball in each chamber. Wonder Wads had not been invented yet. I can tell you that if you have a malformed ball, that has a dent deep enough that a void is left against the chamber when the ball is seated, that is a prescription for a chain fire. Call it what you will, sparks or hot gasses, if you leave a pathway to the powder charge you are asking for trouble.

Frankly, I never had much faith in Crisco preventing a chain fire. On a hot summer day the blast melted the Crisco in the next chamber to the one at battery. I thin runny layer of melted Crisco is not much of a spark stopper. 1/8" or so of felt is a much better spark arrestor. Once I discovered Wonder Wads I never globbed Crisco over a ball again. 1/8" of felt will stop an errant spark or hot gas much better.

 

[BHP FAN]

...and as Jaymo pointed out, the wad helps with the fouling. in my opinion, they actually help clean the gun, and at any rate, there is no reason not to use Wonder Wads, or make your own from felt. You can also use the gasket material card wads from Buffalo Bro.s meant for reloading the .45-70 cartridge, and a ''grease cookie'' [bee's wax Crisco and bore butter] The point is, there's a lot of ways to do it, and no reason not to.

 

[SleazyRider]

Examine your nipples, friends!

This thread has caused me to re-think the role of the cap and nipple in chain fires. Upon close examination of my Pietta nipples, I noticed that the tapered cone on most of the nipples had a slight flat on one or two sides, obviously an extension of the flats machined deliberately to engage the nipple wrench. But the flats really shouldn't extend onto the cone, says me. I tried to photograph this apparent "defect" but it was too small for me to capture. It is certainly possible---maybe probable---that the flats will preclude the cap from making a tight seal on the nipple, allowing it to discharge past the nipple on ignition as well compromising its ability to seal out combustion gases from adjacent chambers.

So I chucked each nipple in the lathe and, setting the compound rest at 5 degrees, recut the nipples to eliminate the flat, and to better fit a Remington #10 cap. I just fired off 6 test caps and the ignition was 100% reliable even with my (intentionally weakened) mainspring.

So, to summarize, I have concluded that:

1. If the cap is too tight on the nipple, ignition will not be reliable because the hammer has to perform the double-duty of pushing the cap deeper onto the nipple and firing it as well. This could take two, three, or even more tries before the cap goes bang.

2. The nipple cone should be free of any defects such as flats or out-of-round conditions that would prevent a tight seal. This could allow hot gases to enter the chamber from the area around the nipple.

3. I will never discharge my black powder revolver while pumping gas into my car.

This is probably not news to most of you, but it was an "ah-ha" moment for yours truly. The photographs contained in this thread were a real eye-opener!