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Could someone explain the to me the Kahr/Moonie issue?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by c919, Jun 3, 2010.

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  1. c919

    c919 Well-Known Member

    I did a search, but didn't get what I was looking for. Can someone just simply explain why a ton of folks feel disdain for Kahr Arms in relation to the "Moonies".

    I was talking about Kahr to a fellow at the range when he burst into this whole racist rant about his hate for Kahr Arms and the moonies. His buddy chimed in to say that he'd take a stick over a "damn moonie gun" any day of the week.

    So, without getting this thread closed, could someone explain the hatred?
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2010
  2. Dnaltrop

    Dnaltrop Well-Known Member

    taken from Wikipedia, am guessing the gentleman doesnt like the Moon empire.

    Kahr Arms is an American small arms manufacturer founded by Kook Jin "Justin" Moon (son of Unification Church founder Sun Myung Moon), who currently serves as CEO and President. It is owned by the Saeilo Corporation (pronounced say-low), a subsidiary of the Unification Church International holding company.[1]

    The "moonies" have some interesting notes if you go through old news articles.

    Did i keep it dry enough To remain safe?
  3. David E

    David E Well-Known Member

    Turns out "Kook" is his first name....really.
  4. c919

    c919 Well-Known Member

    Yeah, but I'm still lost. This Moon guy definitely seems like a nut, but who cares?

    Lots of people think Mormons are nuts, but could I care less. I love me some John M. Browning designs. A good gun is a good gun.

    I'm just curious why this guy is so much worse Communists or Nazis....
  5. harmonic

    harmonic member

    Dislike for the Moonie cult is not racism. The Unification church is a cult. Research the meaning of a cult. Then research Sun Yung Moon and his control over his followers.

    That said, I'd own a Kahr if I ever felt the need, but I read their guns have a lot of problems.
  6. Dnaltrop

    Dnaltrop Well-Known Member

  7. Justin

    Justin Moderator Staff Member

    Eh. So far as I've been able to determine, the Moonies hold some, er, unorthodox religious views, but don't seem to be possessed of an unusually malignant form of religiosity.
  8. harmonic

    harmonic member

    The founder himself was jailed in Korea for adultery. He preached "blood separation" where female members of his church were required to have sex with him, in order to cleanse the woman from the influence of satan.

    He was also jailed in federal prison here in America for a year for income tax evasion.

    The unification church is a cult. Read up on the characteristics of a cult to know what they do. They separate prospects from family and friends. They pressure the prospect to make an exclusive committment to the organization by depriving them of sleep and food. These are common brainwashing techniques.

    Theologically, their doctrine is probably no more preposterous than half the "religions" in America. But that doesn't make them any less a cult, and their founder any less a scoundrel.

    Still, I'd own one of their guns if someone wanted to give me one.
  9. Dnaltrop

    Dnaltrop Well-Known Member

    Getting senators to your event without them knowing why they're there is pretty damn slick no matter how you twist it though. This was the first time I'd seen them in the news.

    Thank you wikipedia for condensing it tho.

    In 2004, at a March 23 ceremony in the Dirksen Senate Office Building, in Washington D.C. Moon crowned himself with what was called the "Crown of Peace." [58] United States Representative Danny K. Davis (D-Ill.) carried a pillow holding the ornate crown which Moon "snatched up".[59] Other law makers who attended included Senator Mark Dayton (D-Minn.), Representatives Roscoe Bartlett (R-Md.) and Elijah Cummings (D-Md.) , as well as former Representative Walter Fauntroy (D-D.C.) . Key organizers of the event included George Augustus Stallings, Jr., a controversial former Roman Catholic priest who had been married by Moon, and Michael Jenkins, the president of the American Unification Church at that time.[58]

    Moon delivered a long speech in which he stated that he was

    sent to Earth . . . to save the world's six billion people.... Emperors, kings and presidents . . . have declared to all Heaven and Earth that Reverend Sun Myung Moon is none other than humanity's Savior, Messiah, Returning Lord and True Parent.[58]
    On June 27, 2004 the New York Times editorial board criticized the ceremony and the participation of congressional members.[59] The Associated Press reported that "Many of the congressional members in attendance have said they felt misled into making an appearance that later was used to promote Moon's Unification Church."[60] Some stated that they didn't expect a coronation but thought the awards dinner was only to honor activists from their home states as Ambassadors for Peace.[61]
  10. DPris

    DPris Well-Known Member

    One huge difference between a gun designed by John Browning & one sold by KAHR is that when you bought a Browning-branded product the profits did not go to a church-owned company. You buy a KAHR-branded product, the profits do.

    Both religions, Mormon & Moonie, are considered cults by traditional definition and by popular view.
    The Mormon church owns no firearms companies, and when you buy "Browning" you're not contributing to the advancement (directly or indirectly) of a cult.

    Since many people see the Moonies as practitioners of bizarre religious doctrine, many choose not to buy KAHR products & express financial or tacit approval of the religion behind them.

    Does that help?
    Not knocking a choice to buy or not to buy, just trying to answer the question.

  11. DeputyVaughn

    DeputyVaughn Well-Known Member

    I believe Moon also has a stake in Auto Ordinance, maker of the "Tommy" gun.

  12. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Well-Known Member

    Posts #8, #9, and #10 nail this one to the wall.

    Personally speaking, I'll pass on the company and never own a Kahr for those very reasons alone.

    If the OP couldn't care less, fine, nobody should try and make him think one way or the other.
  13. shockwave

    shockwave Well-Known Member

    Wow! I had no idea Kahr was a Moonie front.

    They are a dangerous and destructive cult, meeting all of these criteria. They specialize in using their followers as slave labor to take over entire industries by wiping out competitors. Building maintenance and sushi-grade fish supply are two examples. Until recently they owned the Washington Times, using it as a propaganda outlet for the weird, uber-right-wing beliefs of Sun Myung Moon.

    I will never purchase a Kahr product.
  14. JohnBT

    JohnBT Well-Known Member

    "Since many people see the Moonies as practitioners of bizarre religious doctrine"

    It's all too deep for me. I'm still trying to figure out why the Methodists made me drink grape juice at Communion and eat a little cracker/wafer/thingy. Weird.

  15. FLAvalanche

    FLAvalanche Well-Known Member

    Remembering that we have freedom OF religion and not a freedom FROM religion and considering they haven't flown any jet planes into big buildings, I don't have a problem with them and it's not going to stop me from purchasing a Kahr if I want to.
  16. Boxhead

    Boxhead Well-Known Member

    I have been thinking a Kahr for a carry gun actually. It is darn nice stuff and I will probably acquire one when I get home.
  17. c919

    c919 Well-Known Member

    Makes sense to me. Definitely a myriad of reasons not to support Kahr. I personally don't own any Kahr's. My PPS will do just about anything any a Kahr will, and look better doing it. :D

    I did a bit more reading on this Moon guy, and yeah, he's true quack. Well, thanks for the input guys.
  18. Correia

    Correia Moderator Emeritus

    Oh. Horse. Crap. And I only use the word crap because of the language filter.

    I don't know anything about Moonies. Zip. Nada. I've had one Kahr PM9 for about four years, and it's been fine.

    But I'm a Mormon, and I know a few Mormons. So by tradition and popular view, we're a cult? There's 13 million of us. We're one of the largest religions in the country. We live in every neighborhood, hold every job, and serve in every branch of the military. We've got writers, scientists, a bunch of astronauts, athletes, senators (including one particular scumbag), congressmen, governors, and presidential candidates (also a dork) who are Mormon. I don't know what else you've got to do to be considered main stream around here, but hey, whatever.

    We've got good guys and bad guys. We watch the same TV shows, play the same games, and we don't live in compounds nor do we sacrifice goats. If part of the definition of a cult is kidnapping people, and brainwashing them with sleep deprivation and starvation, then we're really missing the boat, because I spent two years as a missionary, and the biggest barrier to entry was mostly trying to get people to quit smoking. Oooooohhhhh... How eeeevviiiilllllllllll.

    And we've only got one wife. There are bizzaro offshoots that live in their desert compounds that call themselves reformed or this that and the other with multiple wives, but guess what? I don't consider David Koresh to represent mainstream Protestants either, so back off. Baptists came from the Anabaptists, but you don't hear anybody freaking out about that either.

    So leave me and John Browning out of it.
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2010
  19. strambo

    strambo Well-Known Member

    How many of the same "never buy a Kahr" posters would, or have, bought Chinese or Russian (pre-Soviet fall) arms and ammunition? Talk about profits going to something "destructive!" :uhoh:

    My understanding was Kahr is not church owned at all, just the founder is the son on Rev. Moon. If I got wrapped up in these issues, I'd feel a lot more morally superior about my K9 purchase than my Chinese SKS purchase so many years ago. I guess I'm complicit in helping the govt. responsible for so many (past and ongoing) human rights violations...my bad.:what:
  20. rbernie

    rbernie Well-Known Member

    Gang - we talk guns, not religion. The next post that spends time talking about the pros and cons of any given belief structure will earn the poster a week's free vacation away from THR.

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