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Debating CCW with a liberal talk show host Thursday

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Monkeyleg, Dec 26, 2005.

  1. Monkeyleg

    Monkeyleg Mentor

    Dec 25, 2002
    Decatur, AL
    I've been invited to be on the Dustin Weber show on station Z104 in Madison. The show will be taped on Thursday evening. The topic is Wisconsin's concealed carry bill.

    I did a little checking on Dustin Weber, and found that he just graduated high school last summer. So, it's possible that he'll be clueless and maybe even out of control.

    After all this years of discussing the bill, I should have my talking points down.

    However, if anyone wants to offer up some reminders, I'm all ears.
  2. 308win

    308win Senior Member

    Jun 23, 2003
    Ohio - The Heart of it All
    z104 have web streaming/program archives? If so I would like to listen to the program tomorrow evening.
  3. Spot77

    Spot77 Senior Member

    Apr 1, 2003
    You've been doing this stuff a long time; you probably know better than most what you need to do.

    Just remember your facts....make sure they're MEMORIZED; nothing looks or sounds worse than a person who hasn't researched an issue compl
  4. Flyboy

    Flyboy Participating Member

    Apr 19, 2004
    Oklahoma City, OK
    I know what you mean (I think), but you really don't want to come across as using "talking points." Image is as important as fact; you need to come across as cool-headed, logical, well-informed, and in command of the whole affair. Don't let him get you on the defensive, and don't repeat slogans. When you get right down to it, debate is little more than theatre; your job is to play your part more convincingly than your opponent.

    Oh, and don't let your opponent goad you into a grenade-tossing contest, either. Put him on the defensive (but don't badger him). Again, no matter what happens, it's always exactly what you wanted to happen. Don't get flustered.
  5. Highland Ranger

    Highland Ranger Senior Member

    Nov 11, 2003
    New Jersey Highlands
    Don't know much about your local politics but here are some of my mistakes:

    - Be likeable and reasonable; the masses decide more based on how you say things, not necessarily what you say ignoring logic. you can win on points and still lose.

    - don't underestimate him; I know some pretty stupid people with phd's and some "uneducated" brilliant people

    -if you can, drive the discussion; lay out what the objections are to the legislation and why they are false

    -if there is a single concise message associated with our side, repeat it and get it across

    -assuming this will be live and unedited; if not, then hope you have the proper controls in place

    Good Luck!
  6. another okie

    another okie Participating Member

    Dec 26, 2002
    If he's that young, it's probably a good idea to try to talk a little before the show and warm him up a little by asking about his interests, his family, his career plans, and so on. He's less likely to try to torpedo you then.

    When Missourians I knew were working on people I encouraged them to point out that all the fears people commonly expressed had been expressed in every state in which CCW was debated, and hadn't come true anywhere.
  7. NorthernExtreme

    NorthernExtreme New Member

    Dec 4, 2003
    Be kind, Point out where you both agree, Refuse to be put in a position of prooving a negative (how can you proove people won't shoot each other over a parking space?), Point out that a person who shoots people over parking spots has to be pretty insane, and people who are insane will not get permits.

    Truth is; if you are walking into an honest show, you have nothing to worry about, if you are walking into a trap, take it for what it is. Remember that the issue is already settled in the mind of most. There is little you can do to truely change the mind of someone who is for or against it.

    By the way "talking ponts" get old after a while. The sound bites of the Pro-CCW get just as tireson as the sound bites of the anti-CCW so don't go too heavy on them. Be yourself, be honest, be open, tell them something in a way they haven't heard it before, and fun.You will do fine.

  8. Old Fuff

    Old Fuff Senior Elder

    Dec 24, 2002
    I would emphasize that the proposal now before the legislature is not something new and untried. Similar laws have been enacted in over (I believe) 33 states in the lower 48, during the past 10 years or more, and the catastrophic consequences brought up by its hysterical opponents has not occurred in one single instance. Not one of the states that enacted “shall carry” concealed weapons licensing has ever repealed their law, or added more restrictions. But several states (including Arizona) have liberalized the provisions – even to the point of recognizing permits issued in other states.

    Why should you have to prove the merits of something that has already shown that it works, time after time, after time...
  9. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

    Dec 24, 2002
    Idahohoho, the jolliest state
    If you start to feel nervous, relax: we're all standing with you, so you're not alone.

    I'm sure you'll do well. You've got the fact down tight, and you have the force of moral rightness on your side.
  10. peashooter

    peashooter New Member

    Jul 14, 2003
    Middle TN
    He will try and paint you as an idiot and trigger happy gun nut. DO NOT be drawn into an argument with a kid. You can't win or get in a good word.
    Take care and most of all BE COOL.
    PS. When I'm asked by non-ccw types, why I carry, my response is this; because bad guys carry guns and you don't.
  11. Waitone

    Waitone Mentor

    Dec 25, 2002
    The Land of Broccoli and Fingernails
    Sit down with yourself and decide on what one factoid you want the audience to remember 1 day after the show is broadcast. Not 2 or 3. One factoid. Then make sure you pound that one factoid multiple times during the show, REGARDLESS OF THE DIRECTION THE HOST WANTS TO GO.

    Now to add variety have in your hip pocket points 2 and 3 but just assume you will only get a chance to pound point #1.

    Good luck on ya. Let us know if the show will be streamed.
  12. Nimitz

    Nimitz Member

    Aug 27, 2005
    Cooper City, FL
    good luck and let us know how it goes.

  13. taliv

    taliv Moderator

    Oct 23, 2004
    if i were in your shoes, i'd focus on the freedom angle. it's a hot topic these days, and people are very sympathetic. so i'd try to cast the debate as: the other side is tryign to restrict our freedom.

    WE shouldn't have to prove our activity is safe or desirable. The burden of proof is on the anti-ccw side to show that it's a) not safe, b) undesirable, AND c) not constitutionally protected.

    we believe the statistics firmly support our cause, and the best the opposition can come up with is the CDC's "results are inconclusive" which isn't sufficient to restrict our freedom.

    i'd also recommend you take the high road. don't resort to ad hominems against the vpc/soros/diaz/brady/clinton etc like the NRA does.

    i'd also do a google search for public speaking tips. you know, stuff about talking slowly and clearly, etc.

    what another okie said is definitely good advice. talk to him before the show. but... just because you guys get all buddy-buddy before the show, doesn't mean he won't turn on you, so don't ambush yourself.
  14. jeepmor

    jeepmor Senior Member

    Nov 6, 2005
    Liberals and CCW

    "When I'm asked by non-ccw types, why I carry, my response is this; because bad guys carry guns and you don't."
    Nuff said.

    I'm a socially liberal fellow, but I personally got tired after 3 attempted (thank you DOG!) break ins at my residences over the past 15 years and the fact that my wife's truck was stolen by METH heads. I don't want to shoot anyone, not at all, but having a gun at the right place and time would still have that nice rig in the driveway, without all the joyride totalling, cost of getting a new rig, etc. Tweakers suck and are becoming a bigger problem everyday in this area. They are not just committing small time burglaries and the like, they are hurting and killing people in the process due to their drug induced psychosis.

    Also, that excellent guard dog that thwarted 3 home burglaries is no longer with us and her replacements are nowhere near as vigilant as she was.:cuss:

    I'm a big beleiver, and always have been, that if everyone in America owned a gun, there would not be much crime, if any. I know of an incident that happened in New Mexico where a CCW person shot a gun wielding wackjob in a McDonald's and saved many peoples lives in the process. The psycho would have taken as many as he could, then himself. He got to be first, not last, I like that.

    I'm not going to advise you what to say to this guy, but isn't that part of the country pretty conservative? I'm in the Portland Oregon area and we have CCW here, so it should pass there even easier than here. :)

    Plus - guns ARE freedom, but true liberals seem to forget how freedom is delivered.

  15. ka50

    ka50 New Member

    Nov 16, 2005
    rip him a new one

    on a public radio
  16. Jeeper

    Jeeper Participating Member

    Dec 28, 2002
    Mesa, AZ
    Focus on the low crime rate among CCW holders and the long time many ccw laws have been in affect with no issues. I wouls also hit gun ownership in general with Katrina.
  17. BigFatKen

    BigFatKen Active Member

    Dec 5, 2005
    Auburn, AL
    Sorry, Madison, WI very liberal

    Madison, Wisconsin is one of the most liberal placres in the Country. It is the home of Donna Shalala and the whole State Government. They have tried City gun bans. nuff said
  18. Phantom Warrior

    Phantom Warrior Participating Member

    Mar 7, 2003
    Actually, I think MN two years ago was lucky number 35 or 36. I know it's above 33.

    Also, check out this Permit to Carry Report on the Minnesota DPS website. It has some good stats. Essentially, permit holders almost never commit crimes.
  19. Igloodude

    Igloodude Active Member

    Sep 24, 2004
    southern NH
    Seconded. The two things I would hit on that seem to most effectively destroy anti-CCW arguments are the much-lower-than-the-general-public crime rates among CCW holders, and how many states already have them with no "blood in the streets".

    Find as many cases as you can of CCW holders actually committing violent crimes (road rage, etc), and then find as many cases as you can of CCW holders successfully averting massacres. I'd think (and hope) the latter would be more than the former. But with that data in your back pocket, you can challenge the host on it; if it looks late in the show like he's clueless, ask him to cite a single instance of a CCW holder committing a violent crime, and even if he can cite one instance, you can respond with the averting-massacres incidents.
  20. erik the bold

    erik the bold Member

    Aug 17, 2004
    Middle of the Mitten, Somewhere' Nort of Hell
    Michigan State Police CCW reports are available, here

    Crime reports are here

    A lot of good data from a "neighbor" state.

    In Michigan last year:

    Residents = 10.1 million
    CPL holders = 218,000 approx. (2.16% of population)

    Total crimes reported = 997,914 (9.8 per 100)
    Criminal or other activity by CPL holders resulting in revocation = 121 (0.06% of CPL holders / 0.0012% of total population)

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