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Delray Beach P.D. is seizing guns

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Kodiaz, Feb 9, 2006.

  1. Kodiaz

    Kodiaz member

    That they say they can't prove were used to commit a crime. This would be funny if it wasn't true.


    Dec. 31 gunfire stumps police

    Legislation would stiffen penalties

    By Erika Slife
    South Florida Sun-Sentinel
    Posted February 9 2006

    Delray Beach ยท Police are no closer to figuring out who fired bullets into the air on New Year's Eve, which resulted in injuries to two people at the city's annual First Night celebration, according to a recent report by Police Chief Joseph Schroeder.

    Meanwhile, state lawmakers are drafting legislation that would change the penalty for discharging a firearm in public from a misdemeanor to a third-degree felony, an initiative pushed by Delray Beach police after the incident.

    Although police have seized weapons and offered a $6,000 reward for tips leading to an arrest, the likelihood of solving the crime is small given the obstacles officers face, Schroeder said. A bullet can travel miles from where it was fired and critical evidence, such as the bullets or weapons used, has not been recovered.

    "It's very complicated," Schroeder said.

    Police never found the bullet that struck Larry Cerullo, who was standing near the 100-foot Christmas tree in Old School Square. The bullet hit him in the head but didn't penetrate the skull. Likewise, doctors did not remove the bullet that struck Heather Leitch in the sternum. Leitch was struck sitting outside Cabana El Rey.

    Schroeder also stated in his report that police are developing plans to begin a campaign to further spread the word about dangers associated with celebratory gunfire.

    Since opening the investigation, police have seized two Mac 90 rifles, one shotgun and one .308-caliber rifle from Southwest 11th Avenue and a 9 mm Glock handgun from the 500 block of Southwest Fifth Avenue. Police don't know if the weapons were used in the shootings because they don't have the bullets to match them.

    "There's no telling that those weapons had anything to do with this. There's nothing to tie those to people getting hit," Schroeder said. "The best evidence would be to find the bullets and we never found the bullets."

    Also hindering police efforts in similar cases is the ability to make an immediate arrest after the shooting.

    Under state law, firing a weapon in public is a misdemeanor.

    If it were a felony, officers could make an arrest on the spot even without witnessing the crime.

    Lawmakers are considering drafting a bill to change the penalty, according to state officials. Rep. Dick Kravitz, R-Jacksonville, Chairman of the House Criminal Justice Committee, is seeking the approval of House Speaker Allan Bense, R-Panama City, to move forward with writing a bill.

    "I think it's important because for someone to shoot a gun [in the air] puts everybody's lives at risk," said Rep. Anne Gannon, D-Delray Beach, who is backing the proposal.

    "This would give [officers] more latitude to investigate and arrest the person who did it."

    However, NRA lobbyist Marion Hammer said adequate laws are already in place to punish criminals.

    "We have laws that prevent law enforcement from acting too quickly," she said. "If the individual is a danger to himself or others, they don't need a warrant to arrest him. There are plenty of laws in place when you may and may not arrest with or without a warrant. They need to quit running to the legislature for a new law any time something is inconvenient."

    I contacted the reporter just to ask her some questions. Really nice lady she moved here from Ill.

    So why are they "seizing weapons" that they admit they can't prove were used to fire the New Year's eve shots?

    Isn't this a violation of a person's civil rights?
  2. Chipperman

    Chipperman Well-Known Member

    "Since opening the investigation, police have seized two Mac 90 rifles, one shotgun and one .308-caliber rifle from Southwest 11th Avenue and a 9 mm Glock handgun from the 500 block of Southwest Fifth Avenue. Police don't know if the weapons were used in the shootings because they don't have the bullets to match them."

    Hopefully they were not legally owned. If these were seized from legal owners, I smell a lawsuit coming.
  3. Thefabulousfink

    Thefabulousfink Well-Known Member

    I would hope that the weapons were seized through the course of invesigateing unrelated crimes and are being looked at for this case, rather than police seizing any weapon because it "might" have been used.
  4. Kodiaz

    Kodiaz member

    Florida has no F.O.I.D. card requirements. All weapons owned as long as they have benn bought legally and have not been used in a crime are legal anyone over 18 can own a long arm and anyone over 21 can own a handgun. Just walk into Wal mart whip out your drivers license and buy a gun. Ain't freedom great.

    Lawsuit if they weren't seized for some other crime. Those who did the seizing should be getting orange jumpsuits and a seat in a fed pen for violating someone's civil rights.
  5. MechAg94

    MechAg94 Well-Known Member

    I guess those underwater ranges will start opening since you won't be able to fire a gun into the air.
  6. MechAg94

    MechAg94 Well-Known Member

    I assume they mean as long as other people witnessed the shooting? Otherwise, that would be messed up.

    Do they have to make EVERYTHING a felony?
  7. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

    The more crimes promoted to felonies, the more commoners will be prevented by law from keeping and bearing arms.
  8. R.H. Lee

    R.H. Lee Well-Known Member

    They can't find the shooter, the firearm, or the bullets so they want more laws to make up for incompetency. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
  9. Moondoggie

    Moondoggie Well-Known Member

    A police chief that states "Bullets can travel for miles".

    Gee, that's a new one.
  10. Kodiaz

    Kodiaz member

    The best is that they didn't find the bullets so how in God's name do they know these people were hit by bullets.
  11. Nathaniel Firethorn

    Nathaniel Firethorn Well-Known Member

    Just the other day, I saw a .45 hollowpoint on the Dixie Highway, trying to thumb a ride to Boca.

    - NF
  12. Lupinus

    Lupinus Well-Known Member

    So let me get this strait.

    I own a camaro.

    Camaro (not mine) smacks into someones car disabeling the other car but not the camaro and camaro drives off.

    So all police know is a camaro caused an accident but it nor the owner can be identified.

    Police can now impound my camaro and revolk my license because I own a camaro and I might be the camaro guy that caused the accident? :scrutiny:

    Actually I'm wrong. They stole a wide range of guns. So basicly anytime there is a hit and run and the other car/diver isn't caught or identified anyone with a car can have theirs impounded and license revolked....

    Am I off? Thats about what it sounds like when compared to something more and more people don't consider evil.

    This level of idiocy just boogles the mind.

    My head hurts.
  13. Kodiaz

    Kodiaz member

    Lupinus I wouldn't call it idiocy I'd call it a violation of someone's civil rights. I'm going to call the reporter tomorrow and see if she spoke to the chief about the questions I raised during our conversation. Then I'm going to call them and ask them why they "seized" guns that they admit they can't prove were used in this crime. If there even was a crime because how do two people get shot and no bullets are found. Tomorrow is going to be fun.

    And then I'm going to email this article to the NRA. Wonder what they will have to say about this?
  14. Lupinus

    Lupinus Well-Known Member

    you are right it is

    but at the same time it is idiocy
  15. joab

    joab Well-Known Member

    Most likely(hopefully) just bad writing. The guns were either seized for another crime or because these people were seen or admitted to firing in the air or were somehow prohibited from owning firearms(hopefully

    Only one bullet was not found, the other is still in the victim.

    Your analogy gives to much credit.
    In this case the police would only know that another car caused the accident not the make. As evidenced by the wide variety of firearms that were seized and the police say that they can't know if any of them were or were not used by the culprits

    And yes some bullets can travel for miles, read the warning on a box of .22 LR
  16. Robert Hairless

    Robert Hairless Well-Known Member

    Perhaps the reporter will also ask the chief how he can be sure that those bullets weren't fired by police? I'm serious. More police are armed than "civilians."

    So what accountability procedures does the department have in place for ammunition used by or accessible to members of the DelRay police department and other law enforcement agencies in that area? Shouldn't there at least be a check to make sure that each officer has the same number of rounds when he finishes his shift as when he starts it? And what procedures are in place to determine whether an officer has fired his weapons during a shift? Does the DelRay police chief even know what weapons or amounts and kinds of ammunition each of his officers owns or takes with him on duty? Or does he have such a wild, uncontrolled department that he has a vested interest in shifting attention from his department to the general public in such instances?

    Inquiring minds want to know. And have a right to know.
  17. Old NFO

    Old NFO Well-Known Member

    Lupinus, it's "funny" that you should mention that- I was actually arrested in 1982 outside Sacramento for just that thing... My girlfriend and I (both Naval Officers) were on our way back from Tahoe on Hwy 50 when we got lit up by CHP. He came out gun in hand, put us both on the ground, arrested us for felony hit and run, etc. even though there was not a mark on my car. We were taken in and the car impounded; as we were being processed, a Sargent came in to question us about when/where etc. I had a gas receipt and was able to prove it was impossible for us to have commited the "incident" as we had been stopped five minutes after the incident occured and 32 miles away. :fire: We were released, but I STILL had to pay for the tow and impound fees.:cuss: :cuss: :cuss:
    I turned it over to the Navy JAG for resolution, and he was basically told we had "fit the profile" so CHP would not reimburse, but did void the arrest.
  18. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

    Concur with the above posters. It is highly more likely that the guns were seized legally during the investigation of some unassociated crime than it was that they were picked up in some sort of post new-years "sweep."

    I'm curious to hear what turns up from those phone calls, though.

  19. Optical Serenity

    Optical Serenity Well-Known Member

    I don't see the relevance between whether a crime is a felony vs. misdemeanor and RKBA.
  20. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

    Felons are prohibited from owning guns.

    I think it has a lot more to do with the fact that misdemeanors are practically unpunished in many jurisdictions. Ergo, if you want to "send a message" or "be tough on crime", your cause de jour should be made a felony.

    Think of it as inflation for sentencing.


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