Demonstration.........Waukesha,WI...............Sunday Feb.21st

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MisterMike said:
Now you have the situation where cops, who generally are not legal scholars, are expected to understand an AG's decision without the clarity that a statute or judicial precedent would provide.
They're going to make mistakes.

What happens when regular ol' citizens, who generally are not legal scholars, carry firearms in a manner based on an incorrect understanding of an AG's interpretation of gun laws?

That aside, who called the cops on the MWAG? Maybe I missed that part. I noticed the other 2 cops in the background loading up their trays, so it seems like they just happened to be there. If that's the case, then that cop was out of line, and his questions to the restaurant manager(?) sounded a bit leading. The cops didn't handle this as poorly as other OC encounters have been handled, but I still don't think it was handled properly.

This demonstration has my moral support as long as the tone of the event is kept polite and informative.
 
What happens when regular ol' citizens, who generally are not legal scholars, carry firearms in a manner based on an incorrect understanding of an AG's interpretation of gun laws?

I'm not sure I understand your question, but I think there's more than a little ambiguity in Wisconsin at the moment. Here's an excerpt from the AG's advisory memo on the issue of open carry:

The state constitutional right to bear arms extends to openly carrying a handgun for lawful purposes. As illustrated by a recent municipal court case in West Allis, a person openly carrying a holstered handgun on his own property while doing lawn work should not face a disorderly conduct charge. If, however, a person brandishes a handgun in public, the conduct may lose its constitutional protection. Again, “t is the combination of conduct and circumstances that is crucial in applying the [disorderly conduct] statute to a particular situation.” Maker, 48 Wis. 2d at 616.

-http://www.doj.state.wi.us/news/files/FinalOpenCarryMemo.pdf

In my view, this portion of the memo is certain to create ambiguity, confusion, and uneven enforcement. I'd prefer to live in a state where there's an unambiguous right to OC or CC without restriction, but most states with OC laws have at least addressed the issue of whether the right to carry extends to private premises not owned by the armed individual. As far as I can tell, that hasn't been addressed in Wisconsin. So, if a business owner posts a sign prohibiting weapons, does carrying then constitute disorderly conduct?

Going further, is it possible that a business owner or manager might feel so intimidated by an individual carrying a gun openly that he might be afraid to speak? If so, might a cop, acting out of sensitivity to that person's rights, ask if he's okay with it? After ascertaining that the owner/manager doesn't like it, is the cop protecting the owner/manager's rights or trampling on the OCer's rights if he asked the armed individual to leave?

I don't know the answers to these questions. They're left unanswered by the AG's memo. I'm afraid that there will be many more unfavorable conflicts between OCers and cops who are trying to balance according people their rights against the interests of others who might have the bejabbers scared out them, but who are unwilling to confront the gun carrier.

This sort of situation is not unknown to the law, but it leads to a period of uncertainty for OCers. I am in full agreement with those who want to push for an expansive definition of the right to OC and CC, but the sort of confrontation seen in the video is guaranteed to happen when the state of the law is as undefined as unsettled as it appears to be in Wisconsin.
 
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rswartsell:

I agree with most of what you said. I view the officers actions as coersive in nature. He asked the question repeatedly until he got the answer he was looking for.

We 100% support good law enforcement, this was not good law enforcement, this was intimidation.

Then the State Patrol officer uses his influence to get three (3) more officers involved???
 
Gents--

Good luck with your protest. I hope you effect greater respect for OC in Wisconsin . . . and I hope that your legislature and governor steps up to the plate with regard to CC in the very near future.
 
bnhcomputing,

I feel that the action may be premature until the staties AND the county have had an opportunity to respond to formal complaints, address the situation, and cease with the inquiries which I feel is quite likely. Most agencies are not so bored as to be looking to waste manpower on bogus "offenses". They will however continue to bear the responsibility to determine if there is a problem or not.

Should harrassment continue or if the response to formal complaint indicates a disregard for your rights it will become a different kettle of fish.

You want in any action that involves the media to be able to demonstrate that you have been reasonable and have cooperated with the system but the system refuses to cooperate with you. The media is not known for being our greatest supporters. You need to be able to make a solid case before you jump into the spotlight or the media might just backfire on you.
 
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Sorry if I sounded a bit peeved.I thought all it would take is for anyone to see the video.If you watch the video with the sound off .You can almost feel the troopers "cock of the walk" attitude.
Maybe it is just me ,but this sort of thing happens to often.And not just with Open Carry citizens.

bnh,Thanks for straightening out my poor post.
 
One thing to be careful of is accusing the officer of being guilty of the same "offense". Be aware that a LEO in most states, whether on-duty or off-duty, has different rules as to the carrying of firearms, including the non-applicability of a policy such as a business banning guns.

bnh, you've met me, so you know I'm on your side. Just giving a little legal/media-oriented advice.

-Mark
 
faustopph, bhncomputing,

We are brothers in the cause. I do not wish to imply anything else. We will share our experience, strength, and honesty. Should it become truly necessary I will not hesitate to stand with you.
 
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