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Does THR suppress dissent?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Khornet, May 9, 2003.

  1. Khornet

    Khornet Well-Known Member

    I was thinking how we haven't seen much of Malone lately, and was going to ask for him, when I remembered someone's remark on another thread recently, to the effect that anything less than rock-ribbed conservatism isn't tolerated here. Fella said that those who don't toe the line get tired of being bashed, and just leave.

    I thought that was a crock of guano, and still do. Seems to me that here you can't get away with mere assertions, and anything anyone says can be (and usually is) challenged. But maybe some others feel differently. Any thoughts, or did you guys already quit?
  2. SkunkApe

    SkunkApe Well-Known Member

    Although I agree with most THR members on most issues, I've been pretty outpsoken here on my disagreement with the United States' invasion of Iraq, and with associated propaganda campaign.

    With very few exceptions, the THR members who disagree with me have responded to my position in a polite and respectful manner.

    I'm still here.

    Also, no one seems to holding a grudge about my nudist prank.

    This is a good place.
  3. cobb

    cobb Well-Known Member

    Also, no one seems to holding a grudge about my nudist prank.

    :what: That was a joke?:what:
  4. Derek Zeanah

    Derek Zeanah System Administrator Staff Member

    I'd say it's a crock. ;)

    Lord knows I have a history of making some unpopular statements here on THR, and while the "average political stance" on THR is probably mainstream-conservative, there's still room for debate.

    As far as I've seen, anyone is allowed to make any statement on THR, and it's tolerated. You might not get any supporting follow-ups, but it's allowed.

    The things that are not allowed are those that fall into the category of "the poster is being a butthead." Things like attacking other members qualify, as do attacking the religious views of others, or advocating something illegal (<cough> Smith Act <cough>), or generally behaving in a way that would give a visitor to the site a bad image of gun owners and responsible gun ownership. People who continue posting messages that aren't in line with what's allowed here are invited to leave. Sometimes they are allowed back, if it looks like they understand what they were doing wrong and agree to stop.

    I don't think that's extreme.

    Note that posters here have a lot more leeway than they did on The Firing Line.

    (Disclaimer: I'm not a moderator.)
  5. CZ-75

    CZ-75 member

    To some extent. However, I'm only opposed to "official" intolerance of dissent, of which there doesn't seem to be too much of from the moderators. This isn't a DU.com, where we talk out our a**es about tolerance, then shut down their thread and ban them first time they say something we don't like.

    Malone may have left, and I don't miss him, but he was free to remain and not forced out by the "management." Frankly, if you don't want people to react critically to your ideas, don't go where people have been on the receiving end of people espousing similar ideas.

    Left-wing tripe isn't going to wash with most gun owners, even if you are pro 2nd, because they know the agenda behind that philosophy and realize that support for that philosophy is aiding and abetting their eventual loss of rights. Furthermore, other leftist ideas, like govt. regulation of everything under the sun, increasing taxation to pay for govt. expansion and income redistribution to the non-productive, and collectivism are also an anethema to most folks here.
  6. Drjones

    Drjones member

    I do not think so.

    Stop looking over my shoulder, Oleg!!!

  7. Boats

    Boats member

    To some of the libertarians here, I am just slightly to the right of Karl Marx himself.:D

    Seriously, if one is going to be "somewhat contrarian" to the "mainstream" on any forum about anything, a thick skin is required.

    You don't see agricola running away forever do you?
  8. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    I have found that people often confuse argument and debate with having their right to free speech infringed. It drives me nuts. I especially love it when people spout off and then try to cover their butts by saying 'hey man, that's just my opinion and I'm entitled to my opinion!'

    Yup. And I'm entitled to whack you upside the head for being a moron.

    Get over it.

    Now take someone like Ag. Ag has cojones and the courage of his convictions. He hasn't been run off the boards, far from it. When he's not around, everyone wonders where he went and waits for his return. He gets lambasted everytime he opens his mouth, but that's to be expected. The membership here is overwhelmingly more conservative than Ag. If he didn't like it, he's free to leave. Yet he stays and is welcome to for as long as he likes. Same goes for everyone.

    As for 'agreeing' with the membership being a requirement to hang out here, it's obviously not. But don't expect everyone to hold hands and say 'oh, we disagree but isn't that what makes life grand?'

    If you don't want to discuss, don't open your yap on a discussion board. Duh.

    - Gabe
  9. BerettaNut92

    BerettaNut92 Well-Known Member

    Between Twoblink's anti-Beretta and anti-Canon rhetoric, if this were my board, he'd be loooong gone :D
  10. grampster

    grampster Well-Known Member

    Personally I like to see other opinions. When someone puts something out there that I think is without merit, I am forced to think about why I feel that way. That is a good thing. If I choose to, I can debate that opinion. Sometimes when I do that, I reveal myself for the moron I am at times. I did that recently when I forgot to re read a post and got the story twisted up in my mind and made a foolish comment.
    Reading differing opinions will also reinforce the correctness of ones own opinion. It is refreshing to see someone take a position that I disagree with and bury themselves deeper with flawed reasoning.
    From time to time, I even modify my beliefs when I see a reasoned back and forth by a group of folks that, even tho I don't know them, have come to value the opinion and facts they bring to the discussion.

    THR is a wonderful forum for discussion and learning because at the drop of the hat one can observe or join in with a weighty or frivolous conversation. Ya can't just do that anyplace else.

  11. Mike Irwin

    Mike Irwin Well-Known Member

    Suppression of dissent is MUCH different than someone not having the testicular fortitude to go into, and stay in, the proverbial lion's den.

    A prime example of someone who does have that capacity is Agricola.

    No, I don't like his stance on some issues. In fact, I think he's flat out wrong.

    I'm certain he feels the same way about some of us.

    But have we repressed his dissenting view? I think not. He's free to make his arguments as long as they abide by the stated forum rules, just as we're free to make our counter arguments as long as they abide by the same rules.

    Agricola gets high marks from me for his ability to carry on a point-counterpoint discussion.

    No matter how wrong he is. :D
  12. Oleg Volk

    Oleg Volk Moderator Emeritus

    I heard from Malone very recently by email -- he wasn't complaining of oppression at that time. Our friend Manny Goldstein is also well and has been seen on THR recently.

    SkunkApe, what was that about the opposition to the war? We've always been at war with Eurasia, don't you know...


    Edited because everyone knows we've always been at war with Eurasia and no one else.
    Last edited by a moderator: May 11, 2003
  13. agricola

    agricola Well-Known Member

    bah a pox on you ;)

    If anything the most annoying thing being from an opposing standpoint is having people new to the debate ask for answers that have already been given before - it harms the flow of the debate.
  14. Leatherneck

    Leatherneck Well-Known Member

    I think some of the more liberal posters in the past have deserved the criticism they got...rapidly and from multiple THR members...by failing to defend logically and by veering off-topic when challenged. Agricola doesn't do that.

    Logic analysis coupled with conservative values can seem really oppressive to some libs.

    TFL Survivor
  15. Croyance

    Croyance Well-Known Member

    I would say that this board is more libertarian than conservative, though a liberal may say otherwise.
    The fact that other members respond to a posting is not repression. Kicking out members or deleting posts that go against the beliefs of the moderators is repression.
  16. Feanaro

    Feanaro Well-Known Member

    THR has never, as far as I know, suppressed liberals. They might be blasted by some THR members but no one has to leave unless they break the rules.
  17. Drjones

    Drjones member

    Just like with the Bimbo Chix and all the other celebrity pundits:

    Everyone has the right to free speech.

    No one has a right to freedom from consequence for their words.

    If you say something here and someone smacks you with facts, and if that bothers you, that is YOUR problem, not anyone else's, and is sure as heck is anything BUT an infringement on your freedom of speech.
  18. Preacherman

    Preacherman Well-Known Member

    Little do you know that I'm noting every thread and forwarding it to the Inquisition... Torquemada, Torquemada, wherefore art thou Torquemada?

    :evil: :D :neener:
  19. Gray Peterson

    Gray Peterson Well-Known Member

    Oh horsecrap. :)

    See sig below. :D
  20. DRC

    DRC Well-Known Member

    Trust me on this one...

    I use to be a moderator on a board where the original premise was to allow open conversation on a variety of subjects. Debate was allowed and arguement was allowed as long as it did not get out of hand and we mods were incharge of making sure things did not go that far. It was great, but the Admin was "moderate" (read-liberal) in his views and would pander from time to time. As time went on and the mods became less relied upon, since the admin worked the board exclusively through his sponsors after being uprooted fro his job, the board became a liberal meca and still is for the most part.

    Dissent on that board is not tolerated at all. I had the admin take me off as a mod and left it to the rest of them. If politics comes up and it even looks like it might possibly get out of hand the thread is deleted (most of the time by the admin) We use to have to go look in the recycle bin every time we signed on just to see what else had been pulled then spent most of our time arguing with the admin about his reasons for pulling a thread or post. It was bad.

    This board allows things that I never thought it would. Nothing out of hand mind you but there are some threads where information has been given that would have been pulled in a heartbeat on the other board just because "it sounded like it was getting personal." I've seen very little personal attack on this board but have seen some threads get heated because of posters convictions but that's fine and THR seems to feel the same way.

    I also use to frequent another board that catered to those that had been around for a while. If you were new to the board and had a different opinion or idea about something that went against something the core group said, you were attacked personally on the board and through e-mail and removed from the threads. It was pathetic. Several folks on that board even called the mods and admins on the appearence of favoritism toward long time posters and they admitted it was true and even said it would continue to be that way. That's when I left there as well.

    This board is tolerant of idea exchanges and debate which is rare. That's not to say that everyone agrees on everything but most find no problem with disagreeing and defending their position in a fair and adult manner, which is unfortunately rare.

    I think I'll stick around for a while.


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