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Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by nobodyspecial, Nov 7, 2006.

  1. nobodyspecial

    nobodyspecial New Member

    Nov 7, 2006
    First post, first question, hope you can give me some insight. It's time for me to join the "dark side" and procure a Black Rifle. Wanted one for a very long time but, let's face it, good ones are not particularly cheap and under most circumstances offer little in the way of real-world advantage over more pedestrian designs. Having said that; I want one, I can afford one, I'm single and nobody can tell me I can't have one. :evil:

    The decision for 308 over 223 is long settled. I find the 7.62 much more practical. This led me to the the gist of the question, the DPMS LR or the JLD PTR-91. Please follow along with what I have gleaned from several sources and add what input seems appropriate.

    Both are considered by most to be well made. From a reliability standpoint the LR is apparently a bit "tighter" but seems to function very well for most. The PTR appears to be able to club a rhino to death on the way to the range with no ill effects. Advantage- PTR

    Both are considered by most to be quite accurate. Still, it seems the intent of the LR is accuracy biased and so am I. I doubt I'll REALLY need battlefield ruggedness, especially if accuracy suffers. "Apparent" advantage- LR

    Both can have scopes mounted. The LR Picatinny Rail would seem to be a better system than the bolt-on options for the PTR. I'm a scope guy so this matters but I could be shorting the actual quality of the PTR's scopability. "Apparent" advantage- LR

    I've read some WILDLY divergent opinions on the ammo the two rifles can digest. Some are quite emphatic that it is not even safe to use commercial ammo in the PTR and recommend mil-spec 7.62 only. Others refute this. I have not heard of the LR having issues either way but I have not heard anything suggesting a problem with commercial ammo. This matters since I WILL be hunting with whichever rifle and the ability to reliably and safely fire commercial type hunting ammo is a big plus. Advantage- ???

    The PTR is unquestionably a brass eater. Having said that, I have found those who say that while it lacks visual appeal they have had success handloading PTR brass. I intend to handload for the rifle of choice at least some of the time. Obviously handloading brass other than that fired by the PTR would keep it in play but it would seem the LR has a real advantage here.

    Forgive me if this seems wordy up-front but I've found when posts leave things out the first time it actually ends up less efficient as posters keep coming back for more info before they can even comment. You will likely come up with questions anyway but I tried to help out from the start.

    One last thing, I'm having a real struggle with the layout of the rifle. Both can be had in full-size and carbine variations. I'm torn mostly because I'm a bit infatuated with the what the 24" SS barraled LR could be capable of with a good scope. This is tempered somewhat since I'm actually having a 7mm Mag bolt-action trued up and glass bedded etc. and might be overlapping somewhat. What accuracy/performace loss should I expect with the carbine versions vs the full rifle?

    Thank you in advance for any and all comments.
  2. mkh100

    mkh100 New Member

    Dec 24, 2005
    I love my PTR and would quickly choose it over the other. If you have been studying the AR type action you know about the need to keep it clean to insure proper function. While it helps to keep the PTR clean as well it is by no means picky and will cycle through hundreds of rounds of fire without the need to clean it (not that you would want to).

    Cost of ownership is an issue to. Reliable H&K mags are available for the PTR for around $1 - $2. If your getting into the "black rifle" to hedge against a ban the cheap cost of mags makes a difference. You can stock up on hundreds for that rainy day. I dont believe the AR style can match the mag cost even if it takes the FAL mags (some models do).

    All the PTR's are even labelled "308" its a robust action and will handle your 308 loads without a hitch.

    Im not a re-loader.....one problem with the PTR is that your spent case is liable to be 20 yards away and in the grass....it really makes the brass fly !

    Not intended for accuracy? PTR.....Precision Target Rifle, mine it a lot more accurate than I am. Mine shoots South African fine but really tightens up with Hirtenberger. Guess I will soon be looking for a commercial load to feed it as well.

    The modular design of the PTR lends itself to different stocks being quite easily and quickly changed if needed. A compact collapsable stock for "bugging out" an adjustable "target" stock for the range....pretty versatile if you so choose.

    I purchased the PTR based on Price and Performance.....glad I did. :)
  3. Correia

    Correia Moderator Emeritus

    Dec 19, 2002
    Have both, as well as access to about a dozen other .308 MBR type rifles.

    These two are totally dissimilar. I would be hard pressed to put them in the same category.

    The DPMS is a much more accurate gun. It mounts scopes far easier. However it isn't even in the same ballpark for reliability under adverse conditions.

    The PTR is less accurate, and despite what some people say on the internet, the scope mounts suck. It will be a much more reliable gun than the DPMS.

    So it really depends which direction you want to take it in.

    Add the M14, FAL, and Saiga .308 into the mix also. Each of those designs has their own strong points also.
  4. Eightball

    Eightball Senior Member

    May 31, 2005
    Louisville, KY
    And this is why I'm broke :D :banghead: .

    If you are intending to reload, I would probably say the LR would be the better option--better accuracy.

    I don't, so I would probably pick the PTR--more reliable, accurate enough, cheaper mags, more "modification" options. For hunting, I would use SP loads; anything more expandable might have an adverse affect on the size deer there are around here :eek: . Besides, if you're hunting, the "real world" is a lot dirtier than the range, and when "the shot" comes up, I would want a rifle that *will* fire.....which is why I want to go hunting with my MN91/30 :p .

    My vote would be the PTR, really. I just dislike the LR's operating system, but since that was designed for .308 (not 5.56), it might prove to be excellent. Though, Correia makes a valid point--taken a look at an M1A/M14, or FAL?

    Happy choosing
  5. Dave Markowitz

    Dave Markowitz Mentor

    Dec 24, 2002
    Plymouth Meeting, PA
    One point in favor of the PTR over the DPMS rifle is that magazines for the PTR are a lot more common and cheap, in the form of surplus G3 magazines.

    And welcome to THR.
  6. nobodyspecial

    nobodyspecial New Member

    Nov 7, 2006
    Thanks for the input so far. If I could get an M14/M1A for the same price as the other two that would be my first choice. I'll try for one someday or might trip over a bargain somewhere but for now these two interest me the most. The FAL was considered early but there are apparently some very "iffy" samples around and the ones that would otherwise get the nod (DSA's or solid builds on Imbel receivers) are also in the pricey range, even used. The Saiga is pretty darn interesting but simply doesn't appeal to me aesthetically. For the money though, they seem to offer a LOT! I can get a new PTR or LR for right at or under a grand brand new. This being the case I've pretty much set the ceiling there since, well, why go higher? (wait, don't answer that, you'll make too good an arguement) :)
  7. MechAg94

    MechAg94 Senior Member

    Apr 17, 2005
    Check around. You can likely get the PTR for much cheaper than $1000. Like closer to $750. I know Sarco was selling them fairly cheap a while back. I ended up buying one for $900 with mags and a case of ammo. I thought it was a good deal.

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