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eBay Says I Can't Sell M4 Handguards!

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by 648E, Oct 17, 2006.

  1. 648E

    648E Well-Known Member

    I fired this back at them, I wonder if it gets my account "disappeared"....

    Where do you come up with this garbage?

    A quick search of eBay...

    I find numerous railed forends for AR15 family weapons (which are not "assault rifles" unless you're the communistic gov't of california). If you're using the head in the sand approach I could argue that a metal railed forend is much more deadly than the standard plastic piece as you can attach numerous evil things like vertical foregrips and flashlights to it! The military upgrades the weapons of special forces soldiers to have railed forends so they must be deadlier!

    I find many stocks for AR15 family weapons.

    Many grips for AR15 family weapons.

    An assault rifle by definition requires it to have the capability of firing in fully automatic mode. This is also legal with the proper pre-1986 weapon and the $200 tax stamp and applicable background checks and forms.

    Your anti-gun nonsense has already cost you thousands of users and it's about to cost a few more unless the mindlessness stops! Change your policies or may I suggest hiring screeners who know their...nevermind...

    I still haven't figured out which rule I was "violating" that these dozens of other listings aren't. Nobody has ever been killed with handguards and you certainly don't need them to make a rifle functional.
  2. thexrayboy

    thexrayboy Well-Known Member

    I can happily say I've never used ebay and in all probablity never will.
  3. carpediem

    carpediem Well-Known Member

    Well gee, since CA defines AW by features, maybe eBay should sack all the hundreds of shotgun and rifles parts & accessories currently on their website. After all, add an 12rd mag to that SMLE, and it's an AW. Standards are one thing; PC hypocrisy is something else. Yet another reason to shop smarter elsewhere.
  4. marklbucla

    marklbucla Well-Known Member

  5. crazed_ss

    crazed_ss Well-Known Member

    They said "Assault Weapon", not Assault Rifle.. two completely different terms.

    Mac-10, Uzi, AK-47, AR-15 = Assault Weapons
    AK-47, FAL, M-16, G36E = Assault Rifle.

    eBay doesn't permit the sale of any parts or accessories for firearms defined as assault weapons by federal or California law.

    Awhile back, M4 Handguards would go on a weapon that would be qualified an AW under CA law... BUT that is not necessarily the case anymore.. http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/Carbon15/azc-c15rm4ft.asp
    It is entirely possible that M4 handguards could be used for a gun that isnt classified an AW under CA law.

    Ebay is lame though.. I doubt they'll want to hear any explanation.
  6. 'Card

    'Card Well-Known Member

    A quick eBay search shows that your listing was probably called to their attention because it has the term "M4" in the title. The only listings that seem to be OK with that term in the title are airsoft guns or gun cases.

    Look at this realistically. Do you think eBay has some flunky personally view every single listing out of the (literally) millions that get posted every month? Of course not. There are 'hot button' terms that flag your listing to be looked at by a human being, who most likely has no knowledge of guns, no experience with guns, and no interest in guns. It's pretty obvious that "M4" is on that hot button list.

    You can get as angry as you want about it, but it won't change anything. eBay is private property, and as gun owners, part of what we support is the principle that property rights are paramount in our society. Their property, and they set the rules. Rules you agreed to abide by before you posted your ad - even if those rules seem stupid and arbitrary to you and I.

    This is not terribly complicated. Learn to work within their rules, or take your business elsewhere. Ranting and raving about the "communist government of California" does nothing to further your argument, and just makes you sound like a fruitcake.
  7. MadMercS55

    MadMercS55 Well-Known Member

    I remember when guns were allowed to be sold via E-bay. They have changed their views so much over the years that they are quickly becoming extinct as a source for most of my hobbies. I've pretty much quit selling on there due to their higher fees, and the last year or so, there hasn't been much I want to buy listed on there due to their ever increasing strict policies.
  8. 648E

    648E Well-Known Member

    I too remember my uncle buying guns off eBay before I had internet access.

    I don't agree with their nonsense but sadly there isn't a real alternative and I have bought alot of good stuff there for good prices that I can't find elsewhere. :(
  9. SaxonPig

    SaxonPig Well-Known Member

    Try gunbroker.com. No restrictions and no insertion fees.

    Ebay is based in CA and uses CA law as a model. 'Nuff said.
  10. 71Commander

    71Commander Well-Known Member

    If you noticed, all notices of cancellations occure in the middle of the night. The alerts go to India and the decision is made by the Mgt. there.

    I had 7 cancellations before I got suspended.
  11. Mousegun

    Mousegun Well-Known Member

    And if e-Bay don't getcha' with their restrictions, Pay Pal will.
  12. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Well-Known Member

    Actually, the "Forbidden Items" team is in Draper, Ut, I know because I used to sit next to them. They work from about 6 am to about midnight, MST.

    I worked in the team they call "Section 9", which refers to Section 9 of the Ebay user agreement, which basically states that they may cancel any listing for nothing more than making them feel uncomfortable. I mostly removed highly suspicious listings, that had too many indications of fraud to be ignored.

    The Forbidden Items team mostly responds to user complaints. When they run out of those, they look in the cases that the automated filter picks out for them. The examine these cases one at a time, and when in doubt, they ask their supervisor if an item is ok. Now, understand, this section is the least glamorous of the Trust and Safety department of ebay. Most of their day is spent deciding if an item is really child pornography or not. This means, no one wants to stay there for long. As soon as they can transfer to another section, they will. There are supervisors at ebay who are very gun savvy, and would know the difference between a gun and a non-gun. But they don't work in Forbidden Items, because no one wants to stay there. They use Section 9 of the user agreement as a shield against complaints about cancelled listings, saying, "You agreed when you started a seller account, we can cancel anything anytime for any reason. We didn't like it, we refunded your listing fee, better luck next time."

    Ebay has wrestled with the idea of selling guns, they considered setting up a seperate section, like ebay motors, with a TOS agreement that is like a fortress to shield them from liability, but what their counsel and marketing guys keep coming back with is; "All we need is for another Columbine to happen, and then have it reported that the kid got the gun off of ebay with his dad's credit card." A friend of mine personally asked Meg Whitman if there was no way around it, and she said they had decided that the profitability doesn't outweigh the liability issues.

    More than one ebay employee has protested the policy, and ultimately, they don't care. I personally know a couple who have left as a result of this policy. And while ebay might have their reasons, they also own paypal, and their anti-gun policies are indefensible. I won't say I never use ebay, but I'm certainly not a regular.
  13. fixyurgun

    fixyurgun Well-Known Member

    If you look you can always find shotgun receivers listed as unknown part, barreled receivers listed as barrel for whatever. They seem to let their "power-sellers" do what they want with nary a word said.
  14. You're not missing out.

    While you are in the right 648E, you can't fight THE MAN. I fought Ebay and it was a long and drawn out process.

    Fortunately, sites such as Gunbroker exist.
  15. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Well-Known Member

    The truth is, they are overwhelmed, they don't have time to look at everything. They give priority to complaints from users. If one item or one seller gets lots of complaints, that's where they look first.

    Each powerseller has a personal representative that tries to make sure they know, understand, and follow the rules. If they get in trouble, they go to bat for them, to try to get them another chance. They only get their fees refunded for the first violation. If they ignore warnings, they lose fees, (which can be a pile for a powerseller,) and the business they would have had for the duration of the suspension. For repeated offenses, they will be permanently suspended, and I can tell you that they are VERY effective in tracking previously suspended users from starting up again under a different name.
  16. mp510

    mp510 Well-Known Member

    It looks to me that you did violate eBay rules. You should have marketed them as being for a California legal weapon ONLY, making no mention to a non CA legal weapon. In doing such, you violated ebay policy, and they have a right to cancel your listing. Ebay is a business, and the site is their property. They have a right to limit what get's sold, regardless of how unconsionable their policy may seem to us. Remember, how much we fight for private property rights- well, that's all ebay is acting on. You should consider selling in a more friendly venue, like gunbroker, auctionarms, bluebroker, or even the THR trader boards.
  17. 648E

    648E Well-Known Member

    I don't like the gun auction sites, they're just not refined enough I suppose. Maybe in time...

    I did receive a response today though from my rant:

  18. .38 Special

    .38 Special Well-Known Member

    On a more general note, I'm starting to get a little annoyed with "hotheaded" responses to anti-gun people/policies. I participate at various online political bulletin boards and have had some success, over the years, converting fence-sitters and mildly anti-gun people to "our side" with logic and manners. Perhaps the single biggest hindrance to those efforts are my pro-gun "allies" who either A) Go on the offensive: "You gun grabbers are nothing but a bunch of hysterical sheeple!" or B) Break out the "sitting in the dark cleaning my gun collection and waiting for Armegedon" stereotype: "There's a conspiracy to take away our guns and make us slaves to the state. Just look at Kommiefornia!"

    I understand the need to vent as well as anyone, but bear in mind that when you do it in public you are making enemies. Do you think the person who reads the Ebay email is more likely to sit back and say "Whoa. I never thought of it that way!" or "Hey guys, get a load of this goofy gun nut!"?
  19. Vitamin G

    Vitamin G Well-Known Member

    Completely unproductive post warning...

    Ha ha ha, in the end, you're the winner anyways...
    I mean really, her name at Ebay customer support is "Charmie"?
  20. Kevlarman

    Kevlarman Well-Known Member

    Maybe you should re-list the item and say you are not sure if these handguard would fit an AR-15 or not.

    Or possibly mention it as an airsoft part.

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