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Enemy at the Gates

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by dasmi, Nov 25, 2005.

  1. dasmi

    dasmi Well-Known Member

    I just watched this movie last night, and wow. That was a great flick. Ed Harris was especially good. I very much enjoyed seeing Mosin-nagants in action. My 91/30 is even more attractive to me now. The only thing I didn't like, and that I don't like about most movies, is the British, "generic foreign" accent that any non-American character in movies will use.
  2. geekWithA.45

    geekWithA.45 Moderator Emeritus

    Read the book!

    The movie was derived from maybe 10 pages from the book, which covered the overall battle in great detail.
  3. Darth Ruger

    Darth Ruger Well-Known Member

  4. dasmi

    dasmi Well-Known Member

    Oh, I didn't know there was a book. I'll order it now.
    Also, anyone who has played the game Call of Duty, did you notice a striking similarity to the Russian portion of the game?
  5. Texfire

    Texfire Well-Known Member

    I've read War of the Rats, excellent book. I Didn't know that Zaitsev had written his own account.
  6. armoredman

    armoredman Well-Known Member

    Vassili was a dedicated communist, as well, but a pretty interesting guy!
    Here he is in wartime..
    And many years later...
  7. Darth Ruger

    Darth Ruger Well-Known Member

    It was originally published in 1956, the new edition is 2003. It includes a 1941 map of Stalingrad, wartime documents and photos of him and his fellow snipers, and a short version of his experiences he put together for Russian reporters in 1942. He also tells of his growing up as a hunter in the mountains. Lots of details about his experiences fighting before he became a sniper that were left out of the movie. More info:

  8. antsi

    antsi Well-Known Member

    An even better book about the Stalingrad battle is "Stalingrad: The Fateful Siege" by Anthony Beevor.
  9. USSR

    USSR Well-Known Member

    Please note, in the first photo (wartime) he is wearing the Order of the Red Banner and the Bravery medal. Second photo, the Hero of the Soviet Union Gold Star medal (Solid Gold).

  10. entropy

    entropy Well-Known Member

    Indeed, he was awarded the first one before the Battle of Stalingrad was over. The reason for the accents is most of the actors were British. (Bob Hoskins, Rachel Weisz, Joseph Feinnes (Well, he's Welsh actually) and Jude Law.) Only Ed Harris was American, and had an American accent, not a German one in the movie. I still want the Left-handed PU on the cover of the DVD. ;)
  11. jefnvk

    jefnvk Well-Known Member

    After watching many movies and playing many games, I have come to the conclusion that most game maps are built on movie scenes.
  12. Stauble

    Stauble Well-Known Member

    if any of you have played medal of honor allied assault, you will notice that that the D-day invasion is almost exacly the same as Saving Private Ryan
  13. MechAg94

    MechAg94 Well-Known Member

    I liked the movie, but I was put off by the apparent very short ranges at which most of the action took place. I can understand though since Hollywood thinks you have to be a sniper to shoot accurately at over 10 yards.
  14. MatthewVanitas

    MatthewVanitas Well-Known Member

    Though this is horrbly gun-geeky, the main thing that struck me from that film was the futility of firing the PPSh-41 at aircraft.

    Admittedly, even modern Field Manuals explain how to (attempt to) engage Close Air aircraft with the M16. Thankfully, this has not been an issue in my lifetime. But really now, 7.62x25mm from one individual vs. aircraft?

    But still a good film. I do reccommend that you check out the Finnish film "The Winter War", if you are into the whole Russo-military scene. I do understand that the DVD sold in the U.S. is missing about half of the material, but I still greatly enjoyed the film.

    -MV (who has fired a genuine PPSh-41, and was sorely tempted, but left in in Iraq, where it presumably well-serves a certain Iraqi National Guard unit)
  15. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Well-Known Member

    A lot of the sniping on the Eastern front from the Winter War on was conducted at an array of ranges including very short range. Simo Hayha used a subgun for a lot of his work. The Eastern style sniper used in Finland and the USSR was quite different from the modern US style sniper who's deployed as a kind of tactical weapon. Eastern style snipers would just set out and hunt the enemy, killing as many of as high a rank as possible while going from position to position. I don't recall too many stories of their snipers taking weeks to get into the perfect position to kill a single key political leader or general, then slowly exiting. THis is one reason their confirmed kills are so much higher than anything a US sniper has ever racked up. They just kill, kill, kill all day every day. And they had a huge impact on the battlefield.

    Another thing that surprises me is how tiny these guys were. Hayha was a little guy, and from the photo it looks like Vassili was dwarfed by his 91/30.
  16. MechAg94

    MechAg94 Well-Known Member

    The accounts I saw on the History Channel indicated that duel between him and the German sniper happened at a respectable range. In the movie, they should have just used pistols. I wasn't expecting some 1000 yard sniper duel in the woods, but a hundred yards wouldn't be too much to ask for would it? :)

    From what I have seen of US snipers in Vietnam, they weren't too picky about who they shot either.
  17. Darth Ruger

    Darth Ruger Well-Known Member

    In his book, Zaitsev describes making several shots at 600 yards.

    Vassili also did a lot of fighting with a subgun and grenades, quite a bit of it in fact. Another detail left out of the movie.

    He was. He was a little guy. But one of his buddies was even shorter than him. :D (But that person was not included in the fictional versions.) It must have made things difficult with their hand-to-hand training.

    When they arrived at Stalingrad, they spent the first three days training for street combat, learning grenades, hand-to-hand combat, etc, before they actually went into the city. They didn't just jump off the train when they got there and run right into the battle with no weapons. On their first day of combat, Vassili's first act was to take out some machine gun nests with hand grenades. And rather than stay behind to shoot any soldiers that retreated, their Lieutenant led the charge against the Germans.
  18. DMK

    DMK Well-Known Member

    It's a moral and fighting spirit thing. Armies have been doing it for almost a century (ever see anti-aircraft sights on a bolt action Arisaka?). It's better to teach the troops to fire their guns at an enemy attacked by aircraft and armor than to tell them "you don't have a hope of doing damage with your puny weapon so just hide."
  19. ctdonath

    ctdonath Well-Known Member

    Elsewhere on THR...
  20. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Well-Known Member

    It's never been a secret that the film was highly fictionalized, so I'm not sure why that gets people worked up. OTOH I don't trust ANYTHING coming out of the heart of Stalin's empire. So claims that all the Soviets fought willingly and nobody was used as fodder don't really fly too well. As a hero of the Soviet Union, Zaitsev had a vested interest in removing any negative aspects ot the account. So while I know that the love affair was fictional, I also take his reports re. the willingness of the average Red Army Man to fight with a grain of salt.

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