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Felon dares CCW holder to "shoot me"

Discussion in 'Legal' started by gunsmith, Aug 6, 2005.

  1. gunsmith

    gunsmith member

    The "witness" is the guys wife,injured guy is a felon but the gunnies here in Reno say the CCW guy should never have showed him the gun

    Witness to shooting disputes self-defense claim
    A woman who saw her former husband shot following an argument about another man’s barking dog disputes the shooter’s claim it was self-defense.
    Willard “Ross” Brymer, 38, remained in critical condition Friday in Washoe Medical Center after he was shot Wednesday night in Huffaker Park following an altercation with dog owner Kevin Kramer, 51.
    Brymer’s former wife, Dena Carter, of Reno, was with Brymer, eating fast food in the grass.
    Carter said Kramer shot Brymer because Brymer yelled at his dog to get away from them.
    She said Brymer did not strike Kramer and said Kramer’s injuries — which required stitches — were self-inflicted.
    “(Kramer) freaked out and said, ‘What are you saying to my dog, you punk,’” Carter recounted Friday.
    “He was mad and pulled out his gun and shot him. ”
    Kramer had an unlisted number and could not be reached for comment.
    Carter added it was a large unleashed dog that attacked Brymer, who told it “shoo” and “get away.” Kramer said his cocker spaniel, Harley, is the one that barked at Brymer.
    “I still feel the blood on my hands and can hear him (Brymer) calling me for help,” Carter said. “I picture him rolling off my car with his intestines spilling out. I want so badly to help him, but there’s nothing I can do.”
    Kramer, of Reno, could not be reached for comment Friday about Carter’s account of the events. He said in an interview on Thursday that he feared for his life when he shot Brymer in the chest.
    He said the shooting occurred after Brymer sprinted toward him and battered him. Kramer said prior to the attack, he had shown Brymer his gun and told him to leave, which prompted Brymer to say “shoot me.”
    Lt. Ron Donnelly of Reno police said detectives are aware that Carter’s version of events differs from Kramer’s. Detectives are also looking for more witnesses to sort out what happened.
    Donnelly said evidence points to Kramer being struck in the incident but stressed the investigation is not complete.
    Carter described Brymer as a religious man, with five children, who is employed as an iron worker.
    She said he dreamed of building structures in Iraq and New York City.
    Brymer’s criminal history ranges from arrests for battery with a deadly weapon and possessing stolen property to a prison term for possessing drugs.
  2. shermacman

    shermacman Well-Known Member

    I read the article three times.
    I can't follow the cast of characters. Is it me or is the world of boyfriends and girlfriends and ex-spouses and fathers and mothers and dog owners who want to kill each other just too complicated?
  3. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

    Other than one or two minor incidents, a man of sterling character who probably wouldn't even know how to tell a fib.
  4. Hawkmoon

    Hawkmoon Well-Known Member

    I'm confused, too.

    If Brymer is such a saint of a man, why is she his former wife?
  5. rich636

    rich636 Well-Known Member

    “I still feel the blood on my hands and can hear him (Brymer) calling me for help,” Carter said. “I picture him rolling off my car with his intestines spilling out. I want so badly to help him, but there’s nothing I can do.”

    I thought the article said he was hit in the chest?

    I'm a little confused :scrutiny:
  6. Firethorn

    Firethorn Well-Known Member

    I'm sure the truth will come out in investigation. If the emergency room did their job, they have pictures of everything, and the experts can generally spot 'self inflicted' wounds very easily.
  7. TrybalRage

    TrybalRage Well-Known Member

    yeah. wait. what?
  8. GunGoBoom

    GunGoBoom member

    You guys summed up my thoughts exactly: Prior offenses including assault/battery, AND a wound, but we're to believe that he did nothing to provoke it this time, and the wound on the shooter is self-inflicted. Furthermore, if he's hit in the chest, his intestines don't fight gravity to go up and spill out the chest.

    Well, TrybalRage summed up my thoughts when I first wake up hung over.
  9. Me too. I thought I was struck with attention deficit disorder for a moment. But the truth is the article is very poorly written.
  10. Firethorn

    Firethorn Well-Known Member

    Cleaned up version:

    50% article:
    Dena Carter, Former wife(reconciling/remarrying?): My hubby's a saint!

    20% article:
    Police: The stories are in dispute. Evidence collaberates Kramer's story, so far. We're still investigating. btw, the one shot(Brymer) has a medium sized rap sheet, including assault with a deadly and prison time.

    10% article:
    Hospital facts - Willard “Ross” Brymer is in the hospital in critical condition.

    20% article:
    Kramer(dog owner): The guy attacked me, I pulled my gun, fearing for my life. I tried to simply scare him away with it, but he kept coming, making a comment that implied he though I wouldn't shoot. He was wrong.

    As for the 'chest' wound, there are many people who associate everthing below the neck and above the groin as "Chest". Though I doubt a CCW pistol is going to create a hole big enough for guts to come out. Heck, I don't think it could do it even if it just creased the guy just right.
  11. geekWithA.45

    geekWithA.45 Moderator Emeritus

    I Detect A Recent Trend Here:

    The press has been seeking out and highlighting, and possibly muddying questionable shoots by permit holders.

    This is the 3rd or 4th recent story that fits that profile.
  12. dpesec

    dpesec Well-Known Member

    Bet we never hear the outcome

    "If" the shooting was justified, we'll never hear that. Why? because it would be a plus, and it would also not have a negative impact on people's opinion of CCW holders. This way people get the impression CCW is a bad thing, people pulling guns and blood running in the streets. Seems we've heard that line before. :banghead:
  13. Byron Quick

    Byron Quick Moderator In Memoriam

    Depends. Sounds like she would have been bored with a saint, you know?
  14. wingman

    wingman Well-Known Member

    yeah, nice guy.
  15. El Tejon

    El Tejon Well-Known Member

    Isn't this a script for an episode of "Reno911!"??? :confused:

    Dogs, people insulting dogs, fast food on the front lawn, baby mommas, ex-girlfriends, obviously this story reads better with a banjo soundtrack. :D
  16. Geno

    Geno Well-Known Member

    Makes me wonder about state-to-state reciprocity of CCWs

    I just sit here wondering how some people get a CCW. Then, upon reflecting on my readings in recent text which details each of the 50 states' laws concerning CCW, etc., I recall that some states have considerably lower standards than others. Michigan is quite difficult even though a "shall issue" state. So, this "gentleman" with some prior legal issues ALSO had a CCW? This article was so poorly written that I could barely follow it.

    I too see a disturbing trend. There are some very questionable shootings going on. And the media seems to be bent on highlighting these shootings for President Hillary for when she takes over the reins of coercion, repression and distortion. Such cases are the necessary precursor to action. After all, one instance is not history nor is it trend. I seriously doubt that we will see many, if any, publications of the many hundreds of times firearms owners legitimately, cool-headily use their firearms prudently (or DO NOT) use their firearms when they could have.

    The present nature of shootings is disturbing regarding the future possession of CCWs, and possible other constraints.

  17. AK-74me

    AK-74me Well-Known Member

    After reading it twice and still not following I scrolled down to see some replys, feeling better I'm not the only one.
  18. NHBB

    NHBB Well-Known Member

    I gave up after a couple attempts, expecting it to be a joke thread lol.... it is sad that anyone writes like that, let alone gets it published.
  19. WYO

    WYO Well-Known Member

    It just sounds like every day police work to me.
  20. El Tejon

    El Tejon Well-Known Member

    WYO, you got that right, my friend. :D

    No wonder police reports are so incomprehensible sometimes. :uhoh: Let's go diagram this one on the greaseboard. :D

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