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First Day at Range with my New S&W 460v .. ARGH.. Buffalo Bore Ammo

Discussion in 'Handguns: Revolvers' started by Evergreen, Apr 20, 2011.

  1. Evergreen

    Evergreen Well-Known Member

    Well, I just got back from the range and had a joyous day from what appeared to be a rocky start. I purchased a new S&W 460v 5" barrel and took my new gun out for the first time. It really is a wonderful gun and shoots smoothly, despite being one of the world's most powerful handgun rounds.

    Anyway, here is what happened. I took the revolver fresh out of the S&W box and loaded with 5 rounds of Buffalo S&W 460 , 360gr ammo. I fired the first 5 rounds.. WOW, it was exciting to fire the 460 for the first time and I was quite accurate at 10 yards or so considering I rarely shoot big bore calibers. Anyhow, I was all joyous and happy, but then something bad happened. I tried extracting the rounds and the ejector rod was stuck. I pushed, pushed pushed and tried pulling the casings out with my fingers to no avail. I started to get frantic and feared the worst. I attempted to push the ejector rod against the bench , but as I saw even with some pressure it would not budge I feared I would break it and stopped.

    Well, my final solution I hope will not cause me any later ramifications. I had a set of allen wrenches with me and pushed them inside the shell through the chamber. I pushed hard on the shell using the allen wrench and each shell one by one gave way and came out. I thought this would be safe because the allen wrench did not come into contact with the chamber itself, but rather with the empty brass casing. If anyone thinks what I did was not a good idea, I appreciate to know about it. Anyway, it seem to work and all the casings popped out with a bit of force.

    Well, after the first problem, I loaded up more Buffalo Bore 460, although this time with a bit of anxiety. I was afraid the same issue would happen again. However, to my surprise the gun shot smoothly and the next set of rounds ejected easily. After that, I was shooting and they came out nice and smoothly. I cannot say how happy I was that things started working. I've read a few horror stories about Buffalo Bore ammo in the 460 and many people who would give up after the first time it happened. I'm not sure if the sticky extraction was because of the residue left from the factory round that was shot; but I am looking for an explanation as to why this happened the first time.

    I will say the S&W 460 rounds fired smoothly and had a lot less recoil than the 454 Casull rounds I fired in the Ruger Alaskan 2.5" barrel without the compensator. The recoil in these full loaded 460s was on par with the recoil of the 44 mag out of my S&W 629.

    After, I shot around 15 rounds of the Buffalo Bore, I put the rest away and moved to the Double Tap. I purchased some Double Tap .454 Casull that I had in various loads. The three loads I shot were 400gr, 360gr and 335gr. The fastest velocity rating was on the DoubleTap 335gr, that were rated at a blazing 1904fp/s out of 7.5 in barrel. I am assuming my velocities were slower, considering I was using a 5 in barrel. The 335gr .454 actually had more of a punch than the heavier .454 rounds. Once again, the S&W 460v handled these nicely and my groups were good, considering my poor skill level with the big bore.

    Finally, I shot the DoubleTap .45LC +P loaded with 360gr bullets and rated at 1200fp/s out of a 7.5" barrel. I thought they would be kittens coming out of my S&W 460v, but, surprisingly, they had a bit of punch to them, almost as much as the 454. I can imagine these rounds fired out of a smaller frame revolver would have more intense recoil. Anyhow, the 45LCs shot quite well and I enjoyed shooting them out of my X-Frame S&W 460 more than I enjoyed shooting my 44mags out of my S&W 629.

    For anyone who is interested, I did spend about $40.00 or so shooting just 15 rounds of the Buffalo Bore S&W 460 stuff.. It is quite spendy, to say the least. I know, its time to reload, different subject for another day.

    Well, this was an exciting day for me and I thought I share it here. Also, I like to address the first problem I had and would be interested to hear people's thoughts about the problem I experienced with the sticky extraction the first time around shooting the Buffalo Bore S&W 460.

    I will post some pics of my new S&W 460 along with all three rounds I have for a nice awe effect, some time. I really am in love with this gun and Smith & Wesson. I think I have over six S&Ws now and counting.. :D
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2011
  2. Trader Ray

    Trader Ray Active Member

    Thanks for sharing, it is a great read. I recently seen my first S&W 500 and was kind of awe-struck at the size of it. Love to have one, but probably could not shoot it much. I can tell you that I bought a brand new Cobra 9mm derringer and of course it was fired once, but only the top and when I got it home and loaded it up and fired both rounds it was the same story, the cases was stuck in and I was worried about bending the extractor. After about a minute the were loose all of a sudden. It has never happened since.
  3. Evergreen

    Evergreen Well-Known Member

    Somebody on another board said I may have damaged by cylinder by forcing the casings out with an allen wrench. What are other people's opinions? I do some some minor nicks on the cylinder and some scratches inside now that I examined it. Does anyone think these could have came like this from the factory or should I send the gun back to S&W and have the cylinder repaired or examined? I wish I had more technical knowledge, but I am not a good person to assess damage on a firearm. I don't see anything major, but I am not sure what problems small nicks on the firearm may incur. I see a replacement cylinder is like $200 for this gun and I am hoping I will not have to place it. I'd be interested for some input from someone about this issue.
  4. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

    First off, I highly doubt that you scratched the cylinder unless you were monstrously careless. Remember that just about all single-action revolvers (Colt SAAs and clones, Ruger Blackhawks, etc) eject cases exactly that way, with a rod mounted to the gun for just that purpose. Unless you dragged the wrench back out of the cylinder brutally after ejecting each case, you didn't do any harm.

    Now, cases that stick can be indicative of rough chamber walls. Seeing rough spots on the insides of the chambers would make me suspicious that they weren't honed very smooth to begin with.

    If you find that the gun generally ejects spent cases pretty easily from now on, I might just leave it alone and shoot it. But, for my money and considering that it is a new gun, I'd want S&W to take a look at it. They certainly could polish the chambers -- or if the marks are too deep, replace the cylinder.

    Having said all of that, the higher the pressure of a particular round, the more likely it is to be tight on extraction. Usually that's a sign that you've gone a bit too hot on your load, but not always.
  5. Rsuchy86

    Rsuchy86 Member

    I had the same problem with my raging bull .454 when using magtech 260g sjsp. Switched to hornady 300g and have had no issues since. Looking forward to trying some .45lc
  6. 788Ham

    788Ham Well-Known Member

    First off, you said you took it , "Fresh out of the S&W box" , your words. You didn't bother to clean it and possibly give it a light lube before taking to the range? Even with it being a large bore revolver, one should have given the cylinder ejection rod a little bit of oil on it, just to make sure it worked smoothly. They put new oil in a new car don't they? If you don't send it back to S&W, you might take a bronze bore brush and cover it with some 0000 steel wool, in a drill or Dremel tool, and lightly polish the inside of the cylinder bores, lightly oil the wool also. This might help considerably in extraction next time.
  7. BCRider

    BCRider Well-Known Member

    The ridges on the hex allens may have caused some scratching. But I wouldn't sweat it. Unless they were deep enough to allow gasses to pass by the rear skirt of the bullet all is well. And from the sounds of it the gun shot well and accurately for the rest of the day.

    Keep in mind that the cases don't go all the way to the front. There's a smaller bullet sized "smoothbore" portion of the chambers where the bullet is guided into the forcing cone. Technically that small portion of the chamber is part of the barrel when that chamber is lined up for firing.

    But I would not make a habit of it. I'd suggest you get a brass rod for such duties for next time. A length of 5/16 or 3/8 rod suitable for driving out "squib" loads that don't make it down the barrel would serve equally well as a sticky case remover and the brass won't scratch the forward portion of the cylinder bores.
  8. 460Shooter

    460Shooter Well-Known Member

    Hey Evergreen,

    Hey, sorry for the tardy response. I have been indisposed with a death in my family. I'm glad you like your 460V. I thought you would, based on what you told me.

    On to the problem: As Sam1911 pointed out, higher pressures can lead to sticky extraction due to case expansion. Since you were shooting Buffalo Bore Ammo, and about the highest octane 460 rounds on the market, it is likely that this is a part of the problem. Then later, Ham788 pointed out that you should clean and lube the gun prior to shooting it the first time. I agree with this assessment as well. So what likely happened to you IMO, is that there was some crud or dirt in the chambers from the factory when you loaded it. The extremely high pressure of the 460 BB ammo likely expanded the cases enough to cause them to stick to the factory dirt, and make extraction a real issue. I think it was a combination of both issues. This seams consistent with the fact that extraction wasn't a problem after the first cylinder. It is likely that the dirt was pulled out with the cases. This is likely what caused the minor scratches in the chambers.

    Of course there is now fouling in the gun from shooting it, and it needs to be cleaned. My guess is that after you give the gun a real thorough cleaning, this will not be a problem again. I have read other reviews that have stated that Buffalo Bore ammo does stick a bit no matter what you do, so don't freak out if it happens again. It is likely that they won't be as stuck as the first time. Hit the chambers with a lot of solvent and a brush. Then buy, and pass a Bore Snake through the chambers for good measure. I bet this will solve the problem.

    On this topic, as some have said, shooting shorter cased ammo like .454 and .45LC (especially cowboy loads)out of this gun will leave a carbon crud ring in the cylinders (the same as shooting 38's out of a .357). If you shoot these, I would strongly advise you against shooting Buffalo Bore ammo afterwards in the same range session. I would guess you would have some really bad extraction problem if you do for the same reason you had the initial problem.

    I really doubt that you damaged the cylinder by using the allen wrench to get the cases out. Like Sam1911 said, you would have to have been pretty vicious to really hurt the gun. Also, take Sam's advice, and look very carefully at the chambers after cleaning as they may be rough, and need polishing. I would not recommend you do it yourself though like Ham suggested, since you have stated that you do not have much technical skill. It would be a shame to have to spend money on a replacement cylinder if this is something S&W will fix for free.

    Try some Hornady 200 gr. FTX bullets. They are a lot of fun, and shoot out of my 460V with no extraction problems. I hope this helps, and keep me posted.
  9. Evergreen

    Evergreen Well-Known Member

    Kodiak, I am sorry to hear about the loss in your family and you have my prayers. Thanks for taking the time to share with me. I am hoping for the best for you and your family.

    Thanks Kodiak, Sam and all others for your response. I know I got a lot of learning to do about the mechanics of my revolver. This was a major investment and I know I should probably do a bit more research about these topics. Sadly, I am too busy with work and other things to take the extra time I need. So, usually I end up learning the hard way and at times have made a few mistakes that cost me $$$ and time.

    I am definitely smacking myself on the head for not cleaning and lubing the gun before I decided to shoot it. I guess I didn't realize how much more maintenance is involved with a big bore gun like this that shoots a wide range of ammo. All rounds after the first 5 shot ok, but I sure hope I don't have the problem again. I will certainly clean and lube this gun before/after each range use.

    A guy on another board wrote something that frightened me a bit, claiming that he thought the pushing of the casings out of the chambers with the allen wrench could have caused nicking. He insists, I need to do a variety of accuracy tests and measure the holes with a micrometer as well as run various size lead slugs through the chambers. I still don't get quite all the details, but I am hoping that I don't have to do all these things. Most likely, I would have to find someone more experienced with revolvers/gunsmithing to assist me analyze the gun for the problems he mentioned that I may have caused.

    Here's what he wrote:
    Anyone think I should find someone to help me perform this testing? Do others agree with his assessment of possible damage incurred by my forcing the rounds out with the allen wrench? From the other posts here it seems that he is being overly-cautious. Although, I am a bit too ignorant to know one way or the other. I think I'd rather just accept when Sam and Kodiak said and assume the cylinder is alright. However, with such a big investment, I do get a bit nervous when others tell me I could have possibly damaged the gun.
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2011
  10. Hondo 60

    Hondo 60 Well-Known Member

    Unless you really gouged the cylinders when extracting the allen wrench, I wouldn't worry about it.
    As mentioned above, Buffalo Bore ammo is about the most beastly ammo know to man.
    So it isn't surprising that you had a sticky extraction.

    I too, would mention you should always clean a new gun before shooting.
    There might be some bits of machining debris in the barrel or chambers.
    (which may have caused your issue)

    But no worries - we all started somewhere. ;)

    If you see deep gouges now, return it so they can polish those out.
    Remember you want concentric chambers, so don't try to polish just a scratched area
  11. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

    One thing to point out is that, while cleaning and lubing a gun is important, you can screw that up, too! :)

    With exceptions so few (and antiquated) as to be not worth mentioning, firearms should NOT have their chambers left oiled. Clean them, wipe them down with an oiled rag as appropriate, but wipe them as dry as possible before you shoot.

    A significant portion of the strength of the gun to resist the pressures at work does come from the momentary adherence of the brass cartridge to the steel walls of the chamber. You don't want lube in there reducing that adhesion.

    As far as the damage you might have caused, that guy is grossly overreacting. Open the cylinder, empty the gun, and look at each chamber throat with a strong light. If you've nicked or scratched something, it will most likely be apparent. Even if there is damage so small you can't see it, the chances of it affecting your accuracy are pretty slim as well.

    As far as "FOUR decimal points" ... yeah yeah yada yada. Revolvers have been shipped from the factory with throats that are significantly off from those perfect dimensions since the first one rolled off the assembly line. 99.9% of revolver shooters have never even thought to check those dimensions, and sometimes better accuracy can be obtained by having those throats reamed for better consistency or better performance with cast lead bullets, etc. In other words, don't sweat it. If you find that your gun is mechanically inaccurate your throats aren't even at the top of the list of things to check.

    If you develop your skills to the point that you are realistically asking for rifle-like long-range accuracy out of the gun, then have someone who knows what they're doing tune it up for you. Yeah, they'll probably ream the throats while they're at it.

    Give it a good visual inspection. If anything seems awry (whether you think you did it or it came from the factory that way) send it to S&W for the peace of mind, at least. If it runs well and shoots with appropriate accuracy (as near as your skills will let you tell) just shoot it!
  12. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

    And here's a good test for a mangled throat:

    Set up five bullseye targets at whatever the longest range you think you can shoot well off a rest. Mark one chamber with some WhiteOut or something so you can keep track of which is No.1. Number the targets and then shoot as carefully as you can one round at each target. Pay attention to that sequence. Reload and shoot again, starting with the same chamber and the same target. Shoot five or ten at each bull in such a way that all the shots on each target came from the same chamber.

    If one group is noticeably worse than the others, you might have a problem. That doesn't tell you that you did it, but it would indicate that S&W could probably improve things for you.

    If all groups are about the same, stop worrying. You certainly didn't gouge EVERY chamber throat.
  13. Evergreen

    Evergreen Well-Known Member

    Thanks a lot Sam for your response here.. Your post does give me a piece of mind. THe other guy was kinda of worrying me a bit. I will certainly be more careful next time and do more research about these type of loads.

    This was a valuable learning lesson for me. I've had a few times in the past , where learning lessons cost me a lot of $$$ and I didn't want this to be another one. E.g., I learned the hard way my DPMS LR-308 couldn't shoot mil surplus ammo, due to its tight tolerances. It's more of a match type rifle with 24" SS bull barrel.. Anyhow, $200 later, after having a stuck casing pulled out of chamber by a gunsmith I learned my lesson..

    Anyway, I guess I may hold off on shipping it to S&W as I am not really sure there is any problem. If you thinking shipping it to Smith is a good idea because of my first problem with the sticky extraction, then may be I would consider doing it. As far as noticeable scratches, I cannot really tell with my untrained eyes, but there does appear to be some type of faint scratches in there that my S&W 629 does not have. It was a big investment and I certainly don't want any factory defects. As far as accuracy tests, with my poor skills of shooting big bore, I'd still be a bit worry depending on my own skills. For all I know, I got all nervous and screwed up my groups on the second session. I don't know any skilled .460 shooters around where I live to perform the test for me.

    Another thing is people are saying the .45LC and .454 are not accurate through the .460. Is this true? I was kind of hoping to do most of my shooting with 45LC and .454 calibers rather than .460. But, if there is a serious hit on accuracy, perhaps I should reconsider depending on those smaller calibers. That is real unfortunate if that is the case.
  14. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

    I don't own a .460 so I can't say I've testing this out -- exactly -- myself. But...

    There is a theoretical expected reduction in accuracy with shorter cartridges. Think about precision rifle shooters who use expensive guages to make sure that they're seating their rifle bullets just exactly 0.020" off of the rifling lands. Every one of them would tell you that if you seated that bullet back 1/8" or so, you could kiss goodbye high precision results.

    In the .460 you're normally starting the bullet some small distance out of the forcing cone (can't put it IN the forcing cone or the cylinder can't turn). The bullet jumps through the chamber throat, crosses the barrel-cylinder gap, funnels into the forcing cone and then engages the rifling. The shorter the cartridge you're firing, the longer that jump -- and if the cartridge brass is much shorter than the full-diameter section of the chamber, the bullet has to funnel into the throat, then cross the chamber-barrel gap, and then funnels into the forcing cone, and then engages the rifling. The farther the bullet has to leap in that largely over-bore area (with hot gasses escaping past it as well before it reaches the bore and seals off the opening) the more opportunity there is for the bullet to become microscopically crooked in the bore. That bullet not entering the bore precisely squarely can lead to losses in accuracy.

    HOWEVER, this is a repeating handgun. Some are very, very accurate, but no production gun is going to keep up with a precision rifle with carefully hand-loaded ammo. The losses in mechanical accuracy that arise from changing from a .460 to a .454, or a .45 Colt are very likely going to be undetectable to you.

    Consider that in each cartridge you're still going to have one load that shoots better or worse than another, and bullet weight, powder charge, component quality, and lots of other things are going to affect accuracy -- even if you just stick to .460. Changing the case length to .454 or .45 Colt throws one more variable into that mix.

    All that to say, with patience, you're likely to find a .460 load that shoots best for you, and a .454 load that is the most accurate version of that cartridge, and one for .45 Colt that's best too. I'd kind of hope to find that there was at least one .460 loading that was the most accurate and which beat all the .454 and .45 Colt loads, but you just never know. Chances are you'll be quite pleased with each of them and will find the cost and recoil savings of the lighter cartridges worth your trouble in giving up a theoretical accuracy edge with the .460 you couldn't have taken advantage of anyway.

    Also consider that almost all .357s and a great many .44 mag revolvers see their "Special" versions 100:1 or 1,000:1 vs. their full Magnum loadings. Most shooters discover that the shorter/lighter cartridges produce just splendid accuracy, plenty sufficient for their purposes, and don't worry too much that they might be able to do a hair better with a full-length cartridge.
  15. Evergreen

    Evergreen Well-Known Member

    Thank you very much Sam for this valuable information. Everything you have wrote has been very informative and has educated me quite a bit. I have learned a considerable amount today. There is a lot to learn about the S&W 460v/xvr guns as they are quite versatile. I definitely am going to do more research about this gun and about the various types of ammo that it can shoot. I am starting to find big bore shooting more enjoyable than any other kind, even more than shooting my ARs or rifles. There is just something about blasting such a powerful round in a handgun that is beyond words.

    I also think big bore shooting is going to inspire me to get into reloading and I am going to start reading some books on reloading and saving my money to get a reloading setup. There is no doubt that paying the outrageous prices for .460, or even .454 ammo is not feasible in the long run.

    One reason I want to use 45LC out of this gun, is that I plan on carrying 45LC as my bear/cougar defense load when hiking in the wilderness. Considering the largest bears around are black bears, the .454 and .460 are way overkill. I also hear the .460 and .454 can seriously damage your hearing and would like to avoid having to use it in a self-defense situation where it is not necessary, like in Oregon. Also, the 45LC in the X-Frame has less recoil than my 4" S&W 629 in the N-frame. I don't believe the extra weight of the X-frame will bother me as I will have it in a chest holster.

    Thanks again for this detailed information. Also, I think I have learned a good lesson about revolver maintenance, especially when shooting hot loads like these.
  16. BCRider

    BCRider Well-Known Member

    The guy that told you to do all that testing is over reacting big time. At the VERY worst you will have a slight scuff or two in a few chambers. More than likely the scuff is a burnish line. Allen wrenches are not cutting tools. The edge of the hex shape may well create a scuff but it's not going to remove any metal doing what you did. The change you see as a scuff would be an alteration of the surface finish and not an actual scratch with a depth that can be measured.

    So sleep easy. You didn't ruin your gun and you don't need to slug the chambers or send the gun back to S&W. But for next time be prepared with a brass rod instead of the allen wrench.
  17. buck460XVR

    buck460XVR Well-Known Member

    Evergreen....I too doubt very much you did any damage at all to your cylinders/throats. Most folks that shoot the .460 will, at some point, have problems with sticky extraction.....especially with BB ammo. When developing loads for my .460, it didn't take long for me to realize, that with the pressures produced, it don't take much to to produce sticky extraction. I have yet to get close to any published max load in any bullet weight or powder combination before sticky extraction made me back off. Sometimes it only takes the difference of a few tenths of a grain of powder to go from cases that fall out to those that I need to use the wooden dowel on. Lube residue, carbon in the cylinders all can lead to sticky extraction. I spend more time cleaning my cylinders than I do the barrel. Make sure you support the cylinder well with your hand when pushing out sticky brass to avoid damage worse than scratches in your cylinder. Same thing does for not beating on the ejector rod. Also, the ejector rods are notorious for coming loose from the recoil. I check mine after every cylinder. Make sure to keep empty cases in when tightening it. If it comes loose the cylinder will bind and may not open. The screws on the cylinder release and the rear sight also like to come loose from recoil, I use the proper Loctite on them.

    As was said before, the Hornady 200 gr SSTs are a good shooing, very accurate bullet. They are also much less expensive than BB and other custom ammo makers. I have never experienced sticky cases from it, but them I haven't shot it for years. The .460 really shines when one handloads his own ammo specific to the gun.
  18. 460Shooter

    460Shooter Well-Known Member

    I again agree with Sam and the other posters who are saying that that other guy is over reacting. I'm guessing you were pretty darn careful removing the cases. It sounds like he was more interested in making you feel foolish than anything. Don't beet yourself up either. I'm guessing there isn't a shooter in history that hasn't goofed at some point.

    I have not noticed any real problems with accuracy on the .45LC's or .454's. This being said, I haven't really shot at anything more than 35 yards away. Targets start getting a little hard for me to see, and I wouldn't shoot at a charging animal unless it were at least that close. Maybe I'd shoot at food if it were at 50 yards, but since I only shoot iron sights, that is pushing it for what I'd be comfortable with.

    I suppose the bullets might start impacting a bit low at longer distances due to lower velocities, but it's just a matter of playing with the gun to get your adjustments down.

    If you are looking for some good .45LC animal defense rounds, I'd suggest you look at CORBON .45LC +P ammo. They offer some good choices, and the recoil is nothing in this gun. I've shot the 225gr. solid copper DPX rounds out of my 460V, and they are quite tame due to the weight of the gun. This makes follow up shots real easy. Also, Winchester Super X brand makes some lower power .454's. I think they produce about 900 ft.lbs. of energy, so they are likely very pleasant to shoot. There are so many options available, I could go on and on. You can shoot ammo that ranges from 300 up to nearly 2900 ft.lbs.
  19. Evergreen

    Evergreen Well-Known Member

    Thanks again for what everyone has posted here. Yeah, I think the other guy was looking to freak me out.. Some people enjoy doing that to people. Everything here has been very informative and I am making notes of everything people have said.

    Buck, as far as the ejector rod and other screws on the sights, etc, would my set of gunsmith screwdrivers be adequate for tightening them or do I need some other special tool? Also, what type of loc-tite would you suggest that I buy and what parts or spots on the gun should I use them? I know I also need to apply loctite to my rifle scope mounts, so I probably can use the same stuff on them. I've been meaning to do this, so maybe I can apply this on both my revolver and rifle scope mounts.

    Kodiak, I definitely am going to do more research on the varieties of ammo. As far as carrying for black bear defense here in ORegon, I was planning on using the Double Tap 45LC +P which seems to be rated quite close to the 44 mag corbon rounds I Have seen. What is your opinion about the Corbon 45LC +P compared to the Double Taps? The Double Taps are quite a bit cheaper and seems at 360gr to be more than adequate for most animals in lower 48 (excluding Montana/Wyoming/Idaho). I'd be interested to compare these two. As far as easy shooting rounds, I definitely like to check out some of the light weight and easy to shoot .45LC and .454 rounds. I was thinking there may even be some rounds that can be used for home defense, although this gun obviously would not be used for that. However, it would be nice to try ammo that can serve that purpose too. Maybe, a good .45LC hollow-point that would not risk over-penetration. Of course, I rely on my 9mm and .45ACP for urban defense/home defense.

    Also, I do plan to buy those .460 Hornady SST rounds and give them a try. THey seem pretty exciting and are quite a bit cheaper than the heavier loads. I am amazed that a pistol round can achieve somewhat near .223 velocities with a bullet that is four times its weight. That is amazing to me. Does anyone know any other rounds that are like these high-velocity, lightweight Hornady's?
  20. 788Ham

    788Ham Well-Known Member


    My meaning of using the bore brush and 0000 steel wool with oil, this was to be done "before" he fired the revolver, to clean any and all crud out before cartridges inserted. I wasn't meaning to get a 1/2" drill and smoke the barrel and cylinder out, God forbid. The gentleman had said about taking to the range right out of the box, my meaning was just to clean before firing, I surely wasn't insinuating he take over and try to correct things on his own. Sorry I didn't explain that section more clearly! Thanks for backing me up on the cleaning though! Peace :cool:

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