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For your consideration

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by DammitBoy, Nov 23, 2012.

  1. Walter

    Walter Well-Known Member

    I agree with the sentiment, and the concept, but, IMHO, it just ain't happening that way. Example: To buy a new gun, you must go to a Federally licensed
    firearms dealer. You must fill out a Federally mandated "yellow sheet" form.
    And that's just the start of it. To paraphrase an old axiom, the camel's nose is already in the tent.

    I certainly don't like the idea of a national I.D. card for firearms ownership, but,
    and again, IMHO, the premise the OP put forward would streamline the process, do away with many idiotic state laws, and simplify the law to the extreme.

    Unconstitutional as all those other laws may be, they are still being enforced by fed, state and local LEOs. I wonder if the idea of being "vetted" by one agency for all firearms activities, nationwide, for life, is such a bad idea.

    Just a thought...

  2. Plan2Live

    Plan2Live Well-Known Member

    My curiousity runs in a different direction. The OP mentions the Gaming Forum and says there are many anti-gun folks there. Do the games themselves feature firearms? If so, why are the anti-gunners playing the game? Seems contradictory.
  3. PRM

    PRM Well-Known Member

    Nutts... Nothing but fancy window dressing. For the card to be viable a data base would have to exist identifying who has guns, where they live... and is nothing more than backdoor registration. If the government ever wanted to confiscate them - knowing where to go, and who has them is not a list I would want to be on.
  4. larryh1108

    larryh1108 Well-Known Member

    I chuckle at those who say no to anything that infringes our 2nd amendment right but then go an renew their CCW license when it expires. Our RKBA has already been stepped on by every state government except Vermont. Get off the soapboxes where you say NO to regulation when regulation is already in place. Some states have terrible gun laws (IL, CA, MA, etc). Some have gun laws that are user friendly. I can't drive from my home, where I am legally licensed, to visit my girl with my pistol because she lives over the border. I can't carry while I drive for work because my territory covers 6 states. If a national CCW card allowed every one of us to carry anywhere then count me in. We already have this very process in most of the states. I don't get how someone can state so righteously that he opposes a national registration to carry but pays the fee to carry locally. Double standards, if you ask me.

    I just jumped thru the hoops to get my CCW where I live. It includes a national FBI check and fingerprints as well as a sanctionel course. What more could a license to carry federally involve? What rights are we giving up that aren't already taken? If this card gave me the right to carry in any state I wanted, I would be very happy. No, I am not happy I had to go thru the process to start with but if I want to carry it's what I have to do. We're already regulated.
  5. highlander 5

    highlander 5 Well-Known Member

    Anything that requires a fee worrys me. Example We here in Ma have to get an FID card or LTC. Fids were $2 and good for life,LTC were $25 and good for 5 years. Well the laws and fees were changed,no more life time FIDs for $2 they are $25 and good for 6 years and LTC have gone up to $100 for the same period. The Feds could pass a national ID card then slowly increase the fees till no one but the likes of Bloomberg,Trump or Bill gates could afford to own firearms.
  6. Rembrandt

    Rembrandt Well-Known Member

    Why leave a paper trail to your front door?........
  7. Spats McGee

    Spats McGee Moderator

    I'll pass on the proposal. In addition to some of the objections already raised, it would require the federal government to set national standards for the issuance of the ID card and the safety course. I suspect that these "national standards" would be significantly stricter than those set by our more gun-friendly states.
  8. 22-rimfire

    22-rimfire Well-Known Member

    Sounds like something that might be done as part of a national gun registry. No card. No guns... These things can be changed at any time. It makes no difference what you are told when a new law is passed.

    I would say that this is an attempt at being "reasonable". I see no reason at this point to be reasonable. I doubt they would drop the NICs check or silencer item and I'm surprised that states allow purchase of firearms these days because you have a CCW permit.

    I will agree to a national ID card if they send me a monthly $500 check. Forget the gun part.
  9. DammitBoy

    DammitBoy Well-Known Member

    Very interesting points and I'm really enjoying reading everyone's responses. The one thought that keeps popping up in my head regarding comments about the Card vs Rights issue - how do you feel about a voter ID card?

    I support voter ID cards - voting is a right. So how is a Gun Permit ID card different? I agree, it should be a shall issue card if one were to be done.

    I also think it's meant to replace individual states cards, but could you do it like driver's licenses?

    The violent felony suggestion, also a great catch!
  10. Texan Scott

    Texan Scott Well-Known Member

    Voter ID law would be enacted at the State, not Federal, level and enforced at the local precinct, whose concern is that I live (and so vote) at that polling place.
    I am affirming a right, not being granted one. If there were any question, they are required to have mechanism for remediation on site.

    At NO point would the feds be asked if a Texan has their permission to vote. THAT'S the difference.
  11. DammitBoy

    DammitBoy Well-Known Member

    Good point Tex, voter ID cards affirm a right, they do not grant a right. Same thing with a shall issue gun permit card, it affirms a right.
  12. Texan Scott

    Texan Scott Well-Known Member

    Not quite. While both a voter ID and a shall-issue CHL affirm my rights as a citizen, my voting rights are not contingent upon my completion of government mandated education; the burden of renewing it falls on the government, not the citizen; and the right cannot be denied for failure to pay a fee or fees (amount subject to increase at a later date).
  13. r1derbike

    r1derbike Well-Known Member

    Absolutely not. A national ID card precludes any proposals below it. We already have our 2nd amendment right to guarantee our ownership, and laws (which are not enforced) which are supposed to regulate the industry.

    Problem is, criminals don't obey laws. Who knew?

    This proposed ID card could be collected at a future date by tyrannical factions of government, along with the national registered firearms it would surely require, and disarm law-abiding citizens, to be preyed upon by criminals with firearms, as they may get weapons to use against citizens by black market.

    No can do. Bad idea.
  14. 9MMare

    9MMare Well-Known Member

    Interesting thread and I dont mean my reply as a 'pile on'.

    The less govt involved in my 2A rights, the better. Why all that regulation? It seems to imply we need some kind of leverage or assurances to *receive* such govt largesse.

    Nah uh.

    And I object to #10....teach your own kid about gun safety and police/store your weapons at home and in vehicles accordingly.

    Now if #10 was to go towards 2A and gun education in public schools, I'd reconsider :)

    Heh, and yes folks, I am a Democrat :)
  15. 9MMare

    9MMare Well-Known Member

    Er, arent voter ID cards use to identify voters at the poll? Dont they perform an actual function directly related to exercising that right? Or enabling it?

    And they are becoming less and less necessary with so many states going to mail in voting. I no longer even need a voter registration card here. Altho I see the benefit in the state sending confirmation to a newly registered/relocated voter so that they know they are indeed on the rolls.
  16. CZguy

    CZguy Well-Known Member

    Just a thought.........couldn't the same "tyrannical factions of government" get the same information by mining the Internet for posts like that?
  17. Neverwinter

    Neverwinter Well-Known Member

    Please explain how the initial proposal would require registration of firearms.

    Sent using Tapatalk 2
  18. oneounceload

    oneounceload member

    Exactly - then you give up local control at your state level to a central gov't authority that changes its mind depending on which way the campaign money flows


    Why do you limit the ability to own a gun to only US citizens? There are plenty of foreign residents who are not a threat but law-abiding business and home owners - why are they excluded?

    You can already possess a gun in US waters

    It is a parent's responsibility to teach their children, now you want some government group to do so? Use the NRA Eddie Eagle program then

    You are also abdicating State's Rights and authority to a higher central government with the carry anywhere not prohibited by Federal law - those who want tight controls will merely push to have the federal law mirror their requirements, thus making many places allowed in other states off limits

    WAY too much potential for abuse and destruction of the RKBA; again NO THANK YOU

    Transporting guns using standard safety shipping procedures? What is that? - no loaded gun in the driver's reach? So much for protection against car jacking or road rage
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2012
  19. DammitBoy

    DammitBoy Well-Known Member

    Good point on foreign residents who are here legally.

    There are plenty of restrictions on possessing a firearm in US waters that would be removed by the proposal.

    There are states that have laws stopping you from carrying a loaded gun in your vehicle already. This proposal would remove that restriction in those states. I read transporting for shipping as exactly that - firearms you wish to ship - not your concealed or open carry personal firearm?

    I agree that a more aggressive government might want to further restrict firearm ownership in the future. The proposal seems to cover that with the 2/3 vote in the house and senate, doesn't it?

    Still not sure how I am going to respond at the other forum... I'm reading plenty of criticisms - some of them constructive, but not much advice on how to further a positive discussion...
  20. DammitBoy

    DammitBoy Well-Known Member

    And yet the Government does regulate all three.

    Why do you think that is and how do you suggest stopping them from further regulation or even removing existing regulations that infringe upon our rights?

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