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Full Auto Ownership

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by MagnumDweeb, Jul 10, 2009.

  1. MagnumDweeb

    MagnumDweeb Well-Known Member

    It's something that has been on my mind for some time now. I'm an NRA certified pistol instructor (I"ll go ahead and do the rifle one in December), worked for a gunsmith, do my own homebrews with a good deal of success. It looks like nowadays if you want an MG or FA you have to become and SOT3 looking to sell to law enforcement or military. There are plenty of Sig parts kits for rifles, and some Galil models, so it wouldn't be the greatest stretch when applying for an SOT3 to be interested in rebuilding the guns with the intent of marketing them to local law enforcement. A Sig 556 with FA option to the local police department perhaps.

    But when I think about it all. It's just BS. I've looked at the 1934 and it wasn't entirely too bad per say. If you wanted an FA or MG you had to reigster it. Not ideal but not too bad. And from everything I've read we have the firearms industry to thank for the 1968 which banned or at the very least made foreign imports more difficult. And it looks like it later gave Clinton the ammo to start destroying Garands, 1911s, and .30 Carbines(oh yeah, every years hundreds of thousands of the guns are destroyed and salvaged for one-thousandths of their modern value) that many of us would gladly pay three or four hundred bucks for but for some reason the government just needs that two or three dollars for the steel. And then the hail mary late night bit added to the 1968 just made FA and MG ownership quite difficult and incredibly expensive.

    I look at brpguns.com and wonder how they are still MGs, it looks like they just went and cranked out tons of receivers up to the last second. And if you read 'Shotgun News' you'll see the little brief case fully transferable MG so I do find myself at a loss.

    Now some may think "why would you want an MG they are expensive to feed" or something else. Well how many of us would love to own a FA Thompson 1927 with a drum and once in a blue moon just unloading a drum on a target for fun. Or get a G3 that is FA capable to practice burst fire on targets. Of course we can't forget the AR-15 and emptying mags for fun. Admittedly if I ever got an FA it would only come out of the safe once or twice a year for some expensive wasteful fun.

    Most of us have never seen FAs or MGs but given the idea of "death by a thousand cuts", if were Semis were to be banned, my grandkids might one day think "who needs Semi-autos, bolt-actions are perfectly fine for shooting practice, I just pick up my one rifle from the government administrated office two times a year" I realize that's a bit off the wall but a gentleman I know told me that in the fifties when his dad brought home a Thompson he couldn't wait for the day he could get one, and then 1968 hit (he was nineteen 1968 he told me) and that idea virtuallly disappeared and by the time he could really afford one 1986 came along and he just threw his hands up(his older brother got the Thompson). Even though the guy owns his own construction company, over five million dollars in real estate, a few race hourses, and number of bars and such, he can't muster the reasoning to pay bookoo bucks for one of the authentic thompsons, and the idea of getting one of the faux brpguns.com thompsons he just didn't like.

    I'll admit I'd like one of the IMI UZIs going around, 9mm makes it affordable to feed and some can be found for less than 6k. Granted I'm years from getting one (still in law school, businesses and day trading are only bringing in about fifteen hundred a month), and I'll probably wrestle with the idea of why I should get one when there are so many other expenses in life. I went ahead and started an FA fund though, when all the bills are paid off ahead of time, and savings are good and growing, all my loose change and singles get stashed and whenever i have surprise earnings, half will go into it.

    But I hope when I have my own house to build a few gatlings for myself(those aren't FA or MG) just for the challenge, granted I'll have a few lathes, mills, and variety of other tools.

    Anyone else got thoughts on FAs, and what they would like i.e. M16s, STG 44s(they are 7.62x33s but still), DP28s, 1919s, BARs, Machine Pistols (honestly a Skorpion with a drum mag and shoulder stock would be awesome).
  2. Valkman

    Valkman Well-Known Member

    I bought a Vector Uzi a few years ago and enjoy it - lots of fun to shoot. Also have a supressor and .22 kit. Many here and in Vegas have FA and when they get together they let everyone else shoot their stuff! There's also ranges that rent FA but that's expensive.
  3. HK G3

    HK G3 Well-Known Member

    I believe you mean the 1986 Hughes Amendment attached to the FOPA, not the 1968 GCA.

    But yeah, I agree with you. I think it's ridiculous that I can't even begin to think about purchasing a F/A until I'm done with medical school and am earning a doctor's salary. Every hardworking American should be able to purchase a F/A without breaking their bank or emptying a child's college fund. Obviously a GE minigun would always be expensive, but there is no reason that a Thompson should cost tens of thousands of dollars.

    Unfortunately I really doubt that the Hughes Amendment will ever be repealed. :(
  4. Officers'Wife

    Officers'Wife Well-Known Member

    I have fired full auto and was less than impressed. But, my background leans heavily to the 'one shot, one kill' mentality. Once when my Grandfather attended a Nat'l Guard open house he was allowed to handle an M-16. He studied it carefully and gave it back. He then commented that while it was lighter than the Garand he carried in France the weight of the ammunition needed to make up for the light 'ball' made the benefit a push.

    In Vietnam, my uncle carried a 12 gauge shotgun. To the day he died he insisted it was a superior weapon compared to the M-16. My Dad preferred the M-16 'in country.' In the end, FA or SA is a matter of personal choice. If you can afford a FA and want to part with the money, I'm all for you having the choice to do so. The idea of the government destroying such weapons in some faith based quest for public safety is an affront to the country's founders. Nearly as much an insult as the idea honest men need to have certain weapons registered to keep them honest.
  5. Mags

    Mags Well-Known Member

    Shot full auto it was cool but it wasn't my gun or ammo. Probably wouldn't do it if I had to buy the ammo.
  6. gondorian

    gondorian Well-Known Member

    ^+1^ ammo costs enough as it is. If I had enough money to burn ammo on full auto I would probably just buy another gun, after all it would only take one minute of shooting ammo on full auto to use up enough money for a decent gun that lasts waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay longer than a minute.
  7. kingpin008

    kingpin008 Well-Known Member

    I'm probably in the minority, but I could really care less about anything FA. I mean the firearms themselves are interesting, but I have absolutely zero interest in ever owning or firing one. I just never saw the appeal, I guess.
  8. clarence222

    clarence222 Well-Known Member

    I've been looking at getting into FA for sometime, and just the other day my wife said yes. I guess I'm lucky that we can afford it now just have to decide which one I want to buy. It won't be a Thompson or M16 just yet. Most likely will start with one of the cheaper models such as the M11 or something similar.
  9. NC-Mike

    NC-Mike Well-Known Member

    I'd love to have one or seven... :)
  10. inSight-NEO

    inSight-NEO Well-Known Member

    An FA weapon would be nice, but merely as a novelty item, for me at least.

    Now, if the semi-auto is severely regulated one day, well...I will have a major problem with that one.
  11. Trebor

    Trebor Well-Known Member

    If you want one bad enough, you'll make it happen.

    I liquidated some poor performing stocks a couple years back and got a FA Vector Uzi.

    Today those stocks would be worthless, or near to it. The Uzi has gone up in value. For once, I did the right thing at the right time.
  12. stickhauler

    stickhauler Well-Known Member

    I Was Able To Shoot "Rock & Roll"...

    Many times, and it's fun as all hell, your accuracy is nil though, perhaps that's why the ammo versus kill ratio in Vietnam was so off the charts, several thousand rounds per enemy casualty. And that was with Curtis LeMay's Air Force trying really hard to bomb North Vietnam back into the stone age.

    My personal favorite? The venerable M-2 .50 caliber machine gun on a tripod. It cuts down trees with ease.
  13. AgentAdam

    AgentAdam Well-Known Member

    I would have got into the game a couple years ago when mac and uzi were going for a few grand cash but now just a couple years later even the semi-auto guns i want have gone up to 2,000-5,000 bucks like the
    Steyr Aug, P90, H&K SL-8/G36,MP5,MP5-K,ect so i have allot to save up for as it is not to mention a fullsize,mini,and mirco Uzi.

    To be honest most of the FA i want are unobtainable because there are only 2 or 3 if any made before 1985 like a Fullauto Glock,1911,and 3 shot Beretta 93r.

    I could go for a FA Mp5,Mp5k,or AR/M16 but i cant see spending 20,000 on one. I could make more use out of a 3-shot burst really.

    Bassically the Mac and Uzi are the only ones reasonably obtained but i would rather spend that on more SUPPRESSORS!
  14. Shung

    Shung Well-Known Member

    we have a different situation here.

    Full autos are often cheaper than semi versions.. that is because you can own them, but you cannot shoot them unless you ask a daily permit for it, and it will cost 100$ -

    Sure, they are a lot of fun, but I wouldnt shoot them more than twice a year. Too expensive, speaking about ammo.

    Seeing all the full auto's owned and purchased around, I suspect everyone to shoot them discretely in private ranges, without the permit, but that is another story.. ;)

    btw, a tri-burst is useless, as you can really do it with a F/A - it's quite easy actually.

    I own a couple of FA, in 5.56 and 7.62x39 (M4,SIG,AK)
  15. danprkr

    danprkr Well-Known Member

    I know of one guy. Just PM me, and we can talk.
  16. MagnumDweeb

    MagnumDweeb Well-Known Member

    Unfortunately we can't live in Switzerland Shung, well I could probably move there but I'm too much a son of the South(of the U.S.) to ever leave(granted Montana, New Hampshire, or Vermont wouldn't be out of the question, a hell no to NYC or Chicago, and don't even think about D.C.).

    I'll admit i'm interested in FAs mostly for the old Thompsons, or even the faux Thompsons at brpguns.com. I wouldn't get one of the grease guns though as I've heard the accuracy isn't squat. I thought about the MACs but for not much more(relatively speakingo f course) I could get an IMI(or Vector) UZI and I'd rather have a true Uzi than a MAC if I could help it. Granted I'd like a G3 in Full Auto.

    Too bad we may never repeal the 1986 and 1968. I think a politician would have the hardest time explaining to the ignorant masses of place like Chicago and D.C., that the American people have a right to own firearms as the Founding Fathers intended and forbidding the people from owning what the government is allowed to own, flys in the face of what the founding fathers intended. Even if you don't want to own one, it just strikes me as disgusting that these laws are in place. I do understand some minor history behind it but i won't get into it because it will then risk stepping on politics and we can't have that and keep this thread open.
  17. Dragracer_Art

    Dragracer_Art Member

    FA stuff is a real hoot to own and shoot...

    I got into them about 6 years ago or so.

    My first was a Cobray M11/9 with a CAC9 suppressor. I payed $1450 for it as a complete package, plus $400 in transfer taxes. I played with that a few months and then bought a Colt M16 for $7800... +$200 transfer. While I was waiting for the M16 to transfer, I bought an Advanced Armament Ranger suppressor for it. That was another $575 + $200 transfer. Then a buddy swapped me a Triple-X suppressor for one of my AR15 uppers... so that was another $200 transfer tax.
    I also decided to convert two of my AR15's to SBR's (short barrelled rifles)... so that was another $400 in transfer tax... my most recent was a Walther P22 and TAC65 suppressor combo for $495 +$200 transfer.

    I shot the full auto stuff a good bit, but had a bunch of trouble finding places to shoot them with the giggle switch turned on. Two clubs I belonged to at the time gradually outlawed full auto on the firing range... so I was then limited to shooting them at organized machinegun shoots... which may have numbered two a year... I could have gone to a couple local indoor ranges that allowed full auto, but what fun is that ?

    I eventually got tired of looking at $10,000+ tied-up in two guns that I could rarely shoot as they were intended... so I sold the Cobray subgun to a buddy of mine as a package for $2250 and the M16 was sold to a dealer in Atlanta for $8750.
    I still have three suppressors and the two SBR'd AR15's... but the full auto is gone for good... I just can't justify the expense anymore. I have too many other hobbies that cost me a bunch of money... like Dragracing. :)
  18. Mohawk

    Mohawk Well-Known Member

    I had a very good friend come out in Jan. to Arizona from back east. He brought a truck mounted 1919A4 and an MP5 with him. We shot up the desert. The 1919 was fun but a novelty as the ammo was so expensive but I can see owning an MP5. Ammo doesn't really go that fast after the initial rush. You fire controlled bursts. It's quite a skill trying to keep 3 to 5 rounds per pull on a full body target at 35 yds. I'd sure love to own one. someday............
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2009
  19. danbrew

    danbrew member

    MD, I'd suggest you find someplace that has a Thompson for you to shoot before you plunk down any serious money for one. I'm not familiar with the faux BRPs you speak of, but imagine they are semi versions of the Thompson. Whether semi or full auto, the Thompson is really a pretty heavy gun for what it is. I had a West Hurly Thompson a number of years ago and actually didn't shoot it too much as it is a heavy gun. Very nice, but heavy. I eventually sold it off and made a few grand on it.

    A Thompson full auto, btw, fires from the open bolt. While I have many memorable moments out shooting stuff, I had finished up shooting one day with the Thompson and was getting ready to go when I found a loose .45 round in the bottom of my range bag. Rather than loading up a magazine, I thought I'd just pop it in the chamber and fire that last round real quick. I pulled back the charging handle about 3/4 of the way and dropped the round in the bbl. I was kinda thinking/not thinking that I'd let the bolt slam home and then I'd pull the trigger. Uhhhh... guess what happens when the bolt slams home? Boom. Taught me a valuable lesson as I looked down at the dead guy in the range, ha!, just kidding, the bbl was pointed down range and all that. Still, surprised me. Didn't expact it to go boom. Lesson learned? You have to work real hard to screw up all four of the rules at the same time in order to shoot somebody. I broke two of the four rules (treat every gun as if its loaded, and keep your finger off the trigger (ok, bolt in this case) until you're ready to shoot). The always keep the bbl pointed in a safe direction and the never point a gun at anything you aren't willing to shoot kept me from really screwing up that day.
  20. Dragracer_Art

    Dragracer_Art Member

    Thats the biggest thing about full auto that often gets overlooked.

    Accurate, aimed fire with a full auto only works on the 1st or 2nd shot. ;)

    Unless you are using a suppressed, pistol caliber subgun at close distance, there is little accuracy at any extended distance when firing in full auto.

    I shot a buddy of mines HK51 several years ago. For those that are unfamiliar with it... it's identical to a 9mm MP5... only it shoots 7.62x51 (.308)

    I believe the first shot would hit a man-sized target @ 25yds... but after that, you are tossing lead all over the place. The recoil and muzzle blast is pretty wicked for a little subgun. :evil:

    Another example is my M11/9. I took it up to hunting camp one year to let some of the older guys have a crack at it... we stood on the porch of the cabin and shot into the mountainside. One of the old timers almost put holes in the roof of the porch when he didn't anticipate the muzzle climb. :what: He took a few steps backwards and just barely got off the trigger in time. He handed the gun back to me and said "Thanks, but no thanks..." :rolleyes:

    Using the M16 as an example... I was at a MG shoot up in the mountains one time... we had stuffed animals loaded with tannerite as targets. They were positioned approx 200yds away and up on a large hillside.
    I took a crack at one of them with my M16. At the time, I had it configured with a 20" barrel, so on single shots it was accurate. Since I was at a MG shoot, single-fire or semi-fire just wasn't 'gonna happen... ;)
    I was shooting in very short, controlled bursts... and I'll bet it took me 10 mags full of ammo until I pegged that dang tannerite bottle... something I could have done in ONE shot thru one of my bolt rifles. :rolleyes:

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