Gotta get it off my chest AR-15 vs. Mini-14

[R.W.Dale]

hobout a challange for our mini fans


2.5" at 250 is impossible with an AR

ok how's this for all you mini owners. I'll give the first mini owner a box of monarch .223 Ammo that makes the following requirment

two targets at 100yds
two 5 shot groups
all 10 rdsmust be fired in under 3 minutes
iron sights
average for both groups must be under 2.5"

 

[Justin]

As far as a previous poster after 10,000 rounds we are talking ORIGINAL parts? I mean AR folks swap out parts like babies need diaper changes.

The rifle I've used for Service Rifle matches (and the first AR I ever purchased) has around 10K rounds through it. It's probably due for a barrel change. Other than that, the only modification made to it was to have White Oak Precision install a float tube in it.

Oh, and I put a leather shooting sling on it.

My 3Gun rifle has had around 4K rounds put through it this year, and about 1K rounds through it by the previous owner. I have yet to change any parts on it.

With open sights?

High Power shooters are not allowed to use scopes, and they shoot out to 600 yards. I was lucky enough to be present when Julia Watson broke the then-current record at 600 yards a few years ago. IIRC, her score was something like 200-17x. Looking up the diameter of the ten ring on a 600-yard High Power target might yield some interesting information...

The only reason I made this thread was the fact that there are a lot of folks out there that make factless, baseless, highly generalized claims about the Mini-14.

Pot, kettle.

 

[stchman]

In all this I never once bashed the AR-15. I still believe it is way overpriced and too finicky a platform.

I was bashing the OWNERS of ARs, yep they still are elitist.

This thread just re-enforces what I know to be true of AR owners.

So after this thread I guess the posters GUARANTEE that if I purchase an AR it will shoot ANY make of .223 or 5.56 ammo? I can also lube it with 5W-30 Quaker State as well.

As far as the poster no trusting his Mini to shoot a coyote at 75 yards you need more practice. At 100 yards I am very proficient with my Mini.

 

[benzy2]

What brand of .223 or 5.56 wouldn't work? If you go with something too heavy for the twist rate it may keyhole but that isn't a function thing. I have never had a single brand of ammo not cycle my two ARs, be it brass or steel cased. I would be willing to try any brand you shipped me and I will video tape it running the box(s) of ammo you shipped.

 

[Mags]

looks like another poster typing about something they know nothing about. I will not knock the Mini 14 I have never shot one. But from the OPs posts here it seems that his knowledge of the AR platform is very limited. And yes this AR owner is somewhat elitists when it comes to the AR style rifle. The M4 defends my unit daily.

 

[knights_armorer]

if im not mistaken "the A team" used mini14's almost exclusively, and also if im not mistaken, in thousands of rounds fired, not a single enemy combatant was even hit center mass.

now, that was a joke of course, but on a more serious note, and i hope you can take something from this:

This thread just re-enforces what I know to be true of AR owners.

this statement is incredibly narrow minded and very low road.

 

[General Geoff]

AR-15: 99.990% reliable
Mini-14:99.995% reliable


Given these two guesstimates (on reliability of the rifle with perfect ammo and good mags), even though the Ruger could be considered "twice as reliable" (one malfunction for every two in the AR), they're both extremely reliable to the point where a malfunction is not likely to happen at all.

 

[EagleClaw]

Carried the M16 and its various upgraded counterparts for 21 years in the U.S. Army. It's an excellent rifle. However, it just wasnt something I have a strong desire to own as a civilian. What I did years ago was purchase a used 182 series mini and made it a project. I bedded the stock myself (minimal expense), had my gunsmith do a trigger job and slapped a barrell strut/stabilizer (Har-Bar) on it. I consistantly get 1.5 inch groups at 100 yards with Federal 55 grain ammo. Thats plenty good enough for me. I have shot thousands of rounds thru this rifle (steel and brass) and it just keeps on going. I am not comparing my Mini to an AR, just saying you can make them accurate and not break the bank. I guess I just like the wood stocked rifles. Besides if the SHTF I'm not grabbing the Mini or an AR - that duty goes to my Yugo M70ab2 underfolder or the Saiga 7.62!

 

[ArmedBear]

As far as the poster no trusting his Mini to shoot a coyote at 75 yards you need more practice. At 100 yards I am very proficient with my Mini.

Iron sight rifle match, any time, bud.

But not with my Mini-14. You are welcome to shoot it if you want, though.

(You forget BTW that I'm about the only person here who has something GOOD to say about the Mini-14.)

 

[HGUNHNTR]

Good Lord stchman, please understand that you are coming across as being incredibly bigoted. Saying that all who choose the AR platform are elitist is about the same as saying anyone who chooses the Mini platform is a beer belly, nascar watching hick.

Come on man, what are you trying to contribute here. Several folks have tried to have a logical discussion, and you just want to turn it into an "elitist" thing.

 

[Ed Ames]

I've fired both types about equally. Here's my take:

The mini is a smaller and handier package. Maybe not lighter (didn't weigh them) but it is less of an awkward lump. That's partly materials (aluminum will always be bulkier) and partly style (pistol grips, high sight plane, long mags, accessory rails, etc).

The AR is an open standards based, multi-vendor platform with limitless aftermarket/spares availability vs. Minis which are single-source solutions. Not that Ruger is going to go out of business but mini owners are far more dependent on a single entity and that's a bad thing in principle.

Either will run wolf ammo but why would you want to? I purchased a few hundred rds of wolf a while ago and so far have seen a bunch of duds (1 in 25ish) including two blown out primers which fortunately also failed to fire the powder but still dumped hot gas into the action.

In a perfect world I'd like a combination of the two... the AR's openness coupled with the mini's compactness.

In this world, both are fun so be happy with whichever you choose.

 

[frankiestoys]

here we go again!

I dont own a AR but have fired lots of them they are fantastic weapons.
They are NOT perfect , sorry guys. My friend has a Smith & Wesson and it jams all the time! And another guy i know has a DPMS & he has no issue's.
Well i do own a 580 series Mini 14 and have done some mod's on it . It
shoots 1 1/2 inche groups all day at 50 yards. I will be heading to the range soon for some 100 yrd groups and will post them to prove my point.
The new mini is much improved over the older series, is it a tack driver ?
NO, but it is a good rifle and can fill many roles.
We can go on forever( thats why theres another thread ):banghead:
Lets agree guys that there both fine weapons and to each his own.
(yes the other guns a Hi point)

 

[DougW]

My first .223 was a Mini14. I really loved it, and it was totally reliable, but accuracy was not so good. I sold it when I built my second AR, because the AR's were so much more accurate. Used the money to build the third rifle. Haven't looked back since.

Mini's are good rifles, and now that the barrels are better, they apear to be much closer to an AR in the accuracy dept. But, they cost close to what an AR costs.

 

[benzy2]

I don't think anyone here has really been hating on the mini 14, just that they aren't what a lot of AR owners were looking for. I think they are fine rifles, just not as accurate as I would prefer for the price, which is why I went with the AR. Different strokes type thing. Its just the attack at all AR owners which was a bit abrasive to say the least.

 

[AndyJ]

You know, back in the day I used to love keeping up with the 'latest and greatest' and I would get whatever the flavor of the week was just to see what all the fuss was about.

Nowadays, it just sorta makes me tired to think about keeping up with all this ummmm .. stuff. I got too old and fat and lazy to do much serious hunting. Anything out past 100 yds is pretty much lost to my bad eyes and the blasted tri focals. Optics are more complication and they don't survive well behind the seat of my truck anyway.

So nowadays, it is mostly ranch critters that catch my interest. Rattlers and coyotes, those damned hogs and such as that. I had 2 Minis over the years. Actually owned both of them at the same time for a bit. One of them lived behind the seat of my truck for a good while. Yes it did. I never did a danged thing to it except buy some factory mags and top them off once in awhile. It slipped out of the two gun sheath hanging behind my seats real slick with just iron sights and it always, always went bang. I dispatched plenty of critters with it.

My boy is military service for many years now and he is a big AR fan. He got me to try one of them and you know it was everything it was supposed to be. I shot it infrequently but never put it in the truck. I just never did warm up to it for some reason. I sorta like the real wood thing more and more as the years pass. Maybe that was it. I can't fault it at all, I just didn't care for it and that is purely personal taste.

The Mini's and the AR are gone now. I sorta keep an eye on the trends at Gunbroker and noticed a year or so ago both of these models were going used at auction for silly money. I hate to be a profiteer but I do enjoy our free market economy. All 3 guns were listed in no reserve auctions starting at a penny and sure enough they brought silly money. I figured if somebody wanted them bad enough to pay that much for them, they really needed them alot worse than I did. I haven't missed any of them.

Texas is a wonderful environment for gun owners and nobody really pays much attention to a beat up old ranch truck going back and forth to town. I have a Colt Government in the center console and an old Wingmaster 12 behind the seat in one of the pockets. The other pocket has a Remington 7615 with a 20 round AR mag. I like those pumps. Simple and easy to clean and they really go bang every time. Sorta hard not to function properly as simple as they are. I guess an auto loader would let me shoot faster but like I said I am sorta old and slow these days. I can shuck that slide pretty fast if I need to and by the time I get a coupla shots off that usually does the trick. Either the varmint is ventilated or it has run off in the brush.

To me it is not which is better or worse, it is what works for me. I do enjoy a good hubbub like this thread though.

Y'all take care and shoot straight.

 

[Flintknapper]

The mini-14 is a very mediocre rifle.

End of story.

 

[Pony Express]

I have shot friends ARs and found them to be no more accurate than my Mini.

sounds like you have a magical mini 14 or you need more practice with an AR

 

[Omaha-BeenGlockin]

Own both--the only thing the Mini clearly does better is the buttstroke---wouldn't dare do that with an AR--lol.

I do prefer a scoped Mini to a scoped AR---and the steel mags vs the aluminium ones.

Otherwise--tit for tat.

 

[husker]

My AR is better than your MINI na na na-nana!! & my mini is better than your AR.na na na-nana!! & my ford 250 is better than your Chevy. & my nova is better than your mustang. GEEZZZZZZZZZZZ

 

[1KPerDay]

The mini-14 is a very mediocre rifle.

End of story.

Well that settles it.

 

[Justin]

In all this I never once bashed the AR-15.

You may not have bashed the platform, but your repetition of clearly uninformed myths certainly doesn't help, especially when it's coupled with a belief that you're somehow stating the absolute truth.

I still believe it is way overpriced and too finicky a platform.

Believe all you want. Regardless, if the platform could be replaced with something just as effective at a lower cost point, you'd see people who shoot often flocking to that platform. Likewise, if the AR platform were so finicky, you'd see not only competitive shooters moving away from it, but also law enforcement.

I was bashing the OWNERS of ARs, yep they still are elitist.

Elitism has nothing to do with it.

Tell you what, stchman, if you can prove to me that a Mini-14 can do absolutely everything I need it to do, I will immediately cease competing in 3Gun with an AR-platform rifle.

Find me a Mini-14 that can do the following:

-Hold up under circumstances of sustained heavy fire (for the purposes of this discussion, let's say somewhere around 75+ rounds fired in under four minutes)
-Possesses enough inherent accuracy to allow me to engage Half-size IPSC targets from point blank range to 150 yards, and 10-inch steel targets from 150 yards to 425 yards
-Possess enough inherent accuracy to allow me to make repeatable, accurate hits on a full-size IPSC target out to 500 yards
-Not change zero under circumstances of sustained fire
-Not jam under adverse conditions, to include sand, grit, and dirt
-Not have the point of impact change due to using the rifle in improvised field positions
-Do all of the above at a price point of $600-$700 out the door with no required modification thereafter

You find me that Mini-14, and I will immediately switch from shooting AR-pattern guns to Minis. A link to a Gun Broker auction, phone number for an FFL who has the weapon in his possession, or a willingness to sell the one you have will suffice. I'll happily drop the cash right now if you can find a Mini-14 that can meet my needs.

This thread just re-enforces what I know to be true of AR owners.

So you came in here with preconceived notions and ill-informed beliefs, and then got all bent out of shape when people disagreed with you? And that makes them elitist?

Wow.

So after this thread I guess the posters GUARANTEE that if I purchase an AR it will shoot ANY make of .223 or 5.56 ammo?

No one here said that, now you're just setting up a straw-man argument in order to puff yourself up.

I can also lube it with 5W-30 Quaker State as well.

I personally know two competitive 3Gun shooters who place extremely well at large national 3Gun and Multigun matches who lube their AR-15's with 5W30.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Well that settles it.

The ruger mini14 is simply an american made SKS that shoots .223 instead of 7.62x39

The problem with this is you can buy an SKS for $150
which if the mini sold for even twice that would be the best deal going

but at 4x that much it's more of a "are you kidding?" rifle

 

[Chindo18Z]

Bought my first Mini in the '70s and loved it. Light, handy, nice wood, and I've always liked the Garand style safety...

It was every improvement that the M1 .30 Carbine ever needed. Just not as accurate.

A carbine that was only Minute-of-Beer-Can accurate.

A carbine that required expensive (and ultimately low cap) proprietary magazines.

If I'm hunting coyotes, it rocks. For combat...not so much.

BTW: The only recent hand-to-hand buttstock breakage that I'm privy to involved...wait for it...a Garand.

Go figure.

 

[Avenger29]

So after this thread I guess the posters GUARANTEE that if I purchase an AR it will shoot ANY make of .223 or 5.56 ammo? I can also lube it with 5W-30 Quaker State as well.

So long as it isn't damaged/dirty, I will run any brand of .223 that's good quality through my LMT. I will not run shady brands through any guns at all, though. And yes, there are a few out there. A-Merc for example.

Brown bear, golden bear, silver bear, I can shoot it. When I run steel case, I generally prefer the Wolf stuff, though.

You can't "guarantee" a Mini will run with those brands, either.


The AR's "finickiness", "unreliability", and "fragility" is way overblown. Way overblown. I would have never purchased one if what is commonly screeched about ARs was true.

No weapon is perfect. Realize that, and you'll be much happier.

The Mini 14 tries but falls short...it has potential if Ruger would do some work on it, but I'm guessing reworking it more than they have already might be cost prohibitive and would raise the cost of the Mini even higher.

 

[lobo9er]

i'd imagine ANDYJ looks like the guy that always plays a cowboy in movies lol wyatt earps brother in tombstone.

i like the arguing too. keep it up they are both good rifles if they weren't they probably wouldn't have stuck around for so long. I had a smith & wesson m&p15 jam machine sent back to S&W came back better, not perfect so I sold it. That was my only hands on with an AR of my own. shot friends AR'S, good stuff but not looking to buy a new one yet.