Gun Ownership and Social Stigma?

[gdesloge]

Is it a legitimate position to ask why someone opposes a right guaranteed in the Constitution?

gd

 

[Hardtarget]

This is WEd. July 20. At church tonight, I got two comments about guns. gave a quick lesson both times. Freaked one out about shotguns. Was kind of funny to watch the look on her face.

Any place, other than church, I will ask if anti gun person owns a computer...on line?...a modem?, a digital camera?. If yes, I just suggest they go turn themselves in to the police. I inform them they own the assault weapon of child molesters, pedophiles, and predatory sexual stalkers...and I know what crime they'll commit before too long!

They don't like that very much.

I think more about the "target, thieft, break in" angle.

Mark

 

[goon]

here where i live in MO, if you dont have at least a few guns you are considered a liberal Democrat and one to be wary of.

You all aren't doing yourselves any favors by keeping this a "liberal vs. conservative" type of thing.
I'm not that old so it's possible that at one time, your views on guns almost certainly coincided with your overall political ideology. But it isn't so much anymore. Gunowners belong to all political parties.
Right now I'm registered as an Independent. I tend to be a somewhat pragmatic libertarian, but I'm planning to register as a Democrat.

A Democrat... who owns guns? And actually enjoys shooting? And thinks that there is both a Constitutionally enumerated right AND a natural right to own guns for your own defense?
Surely I must be off my rocker. Guess I'd better make plans to sell them all off as soon as I change my registration...

 

[Oathkeeper1775]

Location.......

I live 9 miles out and above the nearest town; gunfire can be heard all day long here....every day and sometimes into the wee hours of the nights.

When my relatives (from the city) come to visit, it scares them.

To admit a mistake; I feel I do advertise my ownership too much. This post for 1 example, my NRA Life Membership and Oregon Firearms Federation stickers on my truck kind of broadcasts it too.

Eventhough I can, I rarely shoot on my property; not wanting to advertise to somebody nearby that could easily vector my location.

Some things are best "received" when they are a complete suprise....

 

[Nushif]

Some very interesting talk here for sure, and specifically I have noticed one ongoing theme. And that is of theft deterrent or this "OPSEC" notion. ( I swear I can't say that in a civilian context without giggling)

Now, my question would be, how many of the people here who keep their gun ownership undercover because of the fiscal danger also keep any other similar fiscal investments mum.

Let's assume for a second someone has three handguns for 500 bucks each. That's 1.5k
Should that same person then conceal every hobby, physical investment and other easily accessible item under lock and key, or even more importantly secret?

One such item is for instance a laptop. Would it be equally prudent to lock a laptop in a safe or have it on one's person at all times? How about car ownership?

What I am driving at is that there really does seem to be this culture, even within our community that guns are indeed something special. Motorcycles require a mandatory course to operate here and usually cost significantly more to operate and own than a gun, but I rarely see motorcycle owners keeping mum about their motorcycle activities. And there is a similar stigma of recklessness and endangering of others there as well.

Another example would be DJing equipment. That stuff is very, very pricey, annoys entire neighborhoods and usually associated with criminal locales, drugs , bad neighborhoods and people, but I don't see the DJ scene hiding their turntables in safes at night.

Any more thoughts on this?

 

[oldbear]

I don’t display my firearms in my home or anywhere else, I guess I never felt the need to. My interest in the shooting sports is only a small part of my total as a person. I also realize that some people tend to become nervous or uncomfortable around guns, so why do something that my upset a guest in my home? Perhaps the most important reason is, with the exception of my deep storage weapons, every firearm in my home are always loaded, so why take a chance on an A.D. by a guest?

 

[lambermk]

I make a point to show everybody who comes over at least some of my collection. And there aren't too many people who have been over who ain't seen the whole collection. If they want to run the risk then so be it I 'll catch them and I'll find and they dang sure better hope I ain't in the house while they' re breaking in. Hell to pay. Also I have game cameras set up outside to let me know just who stopped by. I put it in their heads that I ain't afraid to use the guns either, friends or acquaintances.

 

[DAP90]

Should that same person then conceal every hobby, physical investment and other easily accessible item under lock and key, or even more importantly secret?

I don’t know if we need to completely conceal everything we have or do but we should watch what we say and who we say it to. I’ve heard of people talking about their new flat screen TV on Facebook only to later find out that one of their “friends” robbed them while they were at work.

We lock guns is safes because guns are high value targets that if stolen, will likely then be used to commit further, and worse, crimes. They are also dangerous for the untrained to have access to and we don’t want guests or family to hurt anyone.

Laptops would be another high value target not just for the cash they represent but the information on them. I don’t think locking them in a safe is necessary but I wouldn’t leave one in plain view in my car either.

 

[JustinJ]

"What I am driving at is that there really does seem to be this culture, even within our community that guns are indeed something special."

Guns are a prime target for theft because many can not or do not want to get them in legit ways. So if somebody plans on using a gun in a crime, ecspecially murder, the last thing they want is a paper trail. A laptop loses a lot more value being hot than a gun.

 

[gdesloge]

"Any place, other than church, I will ask if anti gun person owns a computer...on line?...a modem?, a digital camera?. If yes, I just suggest they go turn themselves in to the police. I inform them they own the assault weapon of child molesters, pedophiles, and predatory sexual stalkers...and I know what crime they'll commit before too long!"

Brilliant!

gd

 

[JustinJ]

"Any place, other than church, I will ask if anti gun person owns a computer...on line?...a modem?, a digital camera?. If yes, I just suggest they go turn themselves in to the police. I inform them they own the assault weapon of child molesters, pedophiles, and predatory sexual stalkers...and I know what crime they'll commit before too long!"

The counter arguement you are likely to receive is that a computer has countless benefitial uses while a handgun or military style rifle has only one real purpose - to kill. So be prepared to argue against that by the use of guns for sport, recreation and defense.

And why not use your arguement at church?

 

[youngda9]

The counter arguement you are likely to receive is that a computer has countless benefitial uses while a handgun or military style rifle has only one real purpose - to kill.

Self defense of myself and loved ones would be quite the beneficial usage...you don't necessarily have to kill, just stopping the attack would be just fine. It is preferrable(legally and financially) not to have to shoot and that is most often the case when using a firearm for SD.

 

[hq]

The counter arguement you are likely to receive is that a computer has countless benefitial uses while a handgun or military style rifle has only one real purpose - to kill. So be prepared to argue against that by the use of guns for sport, recreation and defense.

Every time I hear that argument, I stare at the person who said it and ask if he/she is serious - when (s)he sees an inanimate object, the only course of action (s)he can think of is to kill someone, and if that really is something a reasonable and rational person would say.

Reframing the whole situation, that is. Works surprisingly well when they really have go on defensive about something they said and implied in the first place.

Admittedly it's an aggressive move and you can't expect to make any friends with it, but chances are someone who really thinks all gun enthusiasts are homicidial maniacs has no intention to be your friend in the first place. And, at that point, depriving them the joy of being witty (or even "right") is IMO a justifiable verbal kick in the groin.

 

[youngda9]

Every time I hear that argument, I stare at the person who said it and ask if he/she is serious - when (s)he sees an inanimate object, the only course of action (s)he can think of is to kill someone, and if that really is something a reasonable and rational person would say.

Hide your kitchen knives.

 

[TexasBill]

Anyone who comes in my house will know I have at least one gun. It's on my hip in plain sight.

 

[19&41]

Most people who know me know I own guns. Now on the other hand I do not freely advertise that I own guns to any stranger on the street, any more than I would leave a carton for an expensive flat screen tv on the curbside for a week to be picked up after buying one, or counting a wad of large bills on the subway platform. One must exercise prudence in these matters.

 

[JustinJ]

"Every time I hear that argument, I stare at the person who said it and ask if he/she is serious - when (s)he sees an inanimate object, the only course of action (s)he can think of is to kill someone, and if that really is something a reasonable and rational person would say."

No offense but that doesn't really make sense. Just because something has a purpose doesn't mean somebody who sees it must feel they are compelled to use it for said purpose. A skirt is made to be worn but most guys don't feel compelled to cross dress when we see one.

 

[Jrob24]

My friends know that I own guns and none of them have given me a hard time about it. However I won't mention that I own guns at work. Here in MA I'd expect to get fired if the boss turns out to be an anti, which is highly likely.

 

[Chris Rhines]

I live in Maryland, and work mostly in DC, doing network administration for law firms and lefty nonprofits.

All of my coworkers and the vast majority of my clients know that I'm a shooting enthusiast, competitor, and part-time gun dealer. I talk about guns and shooting with anyone who expresses an interest.

So far, in seven years, I've yet to have a negative reaction. Nor have I been robbed or had my home burgled.

We should not be hiding our lifestyles. We should be out celebrating them. Guns and shooting are fun!

-C

 

[k-frame]

I don't hide it nor advertise the fact that I own firearms. If asked, I'll answer. Mostly I run into curiosity and sincere interest. So far no one has tried to take me to task (of course it may be that I live in a very gun-friendly state.)

I work for a large Indian company and a while back was in the home office (in India) meeting with colleagues and an Australian business partner. The topic of guns came up at lunch and someone asked me if I owned any guns. I said yes and everyone at the table went quiet for a second and looked at me like I had grown a third eye. And then we had a rather nice conversation about why I own guns (protection and recreation) a short history of how the 2nd Amendment came to be, how it's a protected right, the varied opinion on guns in the US, etc. Mostly lots and lots of genuine curiosity since the rest of the world mostly knows the US through Hollywood. And we all know how THAT turns out when it comes to guns and reality!

 

[CapnMac]

One such item is for instance a laptop. Would it be equally prudent to lock a laptop in a safe

Well, as a matter of fact, both laptops and all three (ok, 2 and the parts queen) desktops have security cables fixing them to their "normal" locations. But, I own CAD software which is significantly more pricy than the hardware, too--do not want that walking off.

While it's obvious to any visitor I have IT stuff in more-than typical quantity, exactly what is there is also password (and biometric in a couple cases) protected. I've got 126-bit encryption on my wireless too, since I do not want my access used fo nefarious purposes.

Do I "hide" all this? Honestly, and this thread has given me reason to consider this, I think I mostly don't talk about much of this as far too many peoples' eyes glaze over during the explanation.

The question reveals the inquisitor, as the old saw goes. "Izzat a gun?" Gets, "No, it's a reminder." "Hey, is that a 1903?" Gets "No, it's a Paris-Dunne Trainer with a USN Mk I Bayonet, Training--it's a reminder of just how bad things can get before they get better."

 

[hq]

No offense but that doesn't really make sense. Just because something has a purpose doesn't mean somebody who sees it must feel they are compelled to use it for said purpose. A skirt is made to be worn but most guys don't feel compelled to cross dress when we see one.

My point was that these people claim (with a straight face) that some objects can only be used for malicious, evil and criminal purposes, which clearly isn't the case. All inanimate objects are just that, inanimate objects, and what they're used for is up to the person.

I use guns for hunting and target shooting. I even do some amateur gunsmithing. When someone tells me that guns can only be used to kill people, I feel compelled to disagree by pointing out that their opinion is only a reflection of their personal perception of reality, which in turn questions their beliefs directly. If they really can't think of any legal, harmless thing to do with said objects, I wouldn't blame the object.

There's plenty of evidence of widespread, legal use of firearms in the society. We're not talking about devices like medieval iron maidens that only have one predefined purpose.

 

[Neverwinter]

The counter arguement you are likely to receive is that a computer has countless benefitial uses while a handgun or military style rifle has only one real purpose - to kill. So be prepared to argue against that by the use of guns for sport, recreation and defense.

You can also point out that there are other things which are banned despite not having the anywhere near the dangerous potential of guns.

And why not use your arguement at church?

I think it is because churches and pedophilia are a sore subject for some people.

 

[Byrd666]

Nushif - Since my youngest experiences with firearms, girls, bikes- Harleys, cars, darts and pool, etc. I just figured I was a normal guy with normal hobbies. If that means I need to think of the fiscal challenges of/for each or any of my hobbies and think of the social stigma of any or all, then why would I bother going out the front door everyday?

As far as I'm concerned, society in the U.S.A. has become so fixated on the "right" of any subject that people have forgeten/don't want to see the real problem. This "p.c." crap is a barrier and or barricade that feeds the uninformed and or uneducated of "X"subject that to be a holder/owner/user/whatever is the worst possible thing in the world. If I remember correctly, information is dangerous, mis-information is deadly.

 

[Old krow]

Let's assume for a second someone has three handguns for 500 bucks each. That's 1.5k
Should that same person then conceal every hobby, physical investment and other easily accessible item under lock and key, or even more importantly secret?

I know of 2 robberies that have occurred here locally in the past couple of years. One was a substantial collection of firearms. I do not have any hobbies personally that get close to what that guy had stolen. Whether or not that those guys "advertising" their collection or not had anything to do with the theft is another question. This isn't newspaper stuff, I personally know both of them.

I have several hobbies; kayaking, camping, shooting, jeeps (maybe not a true hobby but they soak up the cash just the same). A kayak wouldn't necessarily be used in the commission of a crime should one get stolen. I personally do not think that I should be held accountable for criminal activity since I am a lawful gun owners and a law abiding citizen, but I'd rather not invite trouble.

Consider hobbies that include expensive collections such as coinage. There's no stigma in collecting coins, however, broadcasting exactly what you had to people that you didn't know should be done with scrutiny. Jewelery would fall along those same lines. Personally, I'd put them in the safe as well. I seriously doubt that I would tell most people about them unless I knew them fairly well. I'd likely admit to collecting, but that's really about as far as I'd go.

Comparing a laptop theft or a car theft to gun theft is comparing apples to cornflakes for the most part. My laptop, or more specifically its contents, can be stolen while I'm typing this reply. The only true "safe" way to keep a computer's contents safe is to keep it offline. That's just a risk we take. How many of us have more in the value of our computers than we do guns? Compared to some gun collection the cost of a laptop is insignificant.

A vehicle on the other hand is typically a substantial investment. I can't keep mine in the safe. Some people use a garage, some have alarms. That's really about the best that we can do. They can't be stolen and put inside of a coat pocket like a handgun could. A car theft typically doesn't involve the criminal being inside of my home.

Motorcycles require a mandatory course to operate here and usually cost significantly more to operate and own than a gun, but I rarely see motorcycle owners keeping mum about their motorcycle activities. And there is a similar stigma of recklessness and endangering of others there as well.

This is true, but, does a movement exist inside of the USA who's sole purpose is to ban motorcycles? If there is, and I don't doubt it at all, do they have the face time that the Brady Campaign has? Do they have politicians on board with their plan? What does the UN have to say about motorcycles in the US?

I'm not making an argument that we should conceal that we're gun enthusiast, just that it's a different playing field than other hobbies and/or fiscal investments. Personally, I don't hide it at all. If the anti-gun crowd works as hard as they do to create a stigma around gun ownership, we shouldn't ignore it, we should conquer it, but it at a minimum requires that we acknowledged that it exists.