Hornady manuals give excellent load data for the 30-30.I use Olin 748 but work up to these loads.Sam Fadala wrote a book 'The 30-30 and the Winchester 94". It has reasonable load data and deals what the 30-30 factory ammo is capeable of doing. Byron
how hot to load 30-30s
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Clark
Member
I have tried to blow up allot of guns, and I think I can tell what will blow and what will not. It seems to follow the work up trend, thin steel blows up, thick steel does not. With thick steel, the brass fails first, and my work up stops.
My Win94 30-30 looks like it wants to blow up.
My Sav99 303S, Sav 219 30-30, my Win 1885 clone 30-30, and my converted 91/30 30-30 do not look like they will blow up.
I got those guns for overload testing, but have not shot any of them yet.
I also want to get a Marlin 336.
My Win94 30-30 looks like it wants to blow up.
My Sav99 303S, Sav 219 30-30, my Win 1885 clone 30-30, and my converted 91/30 30-30 do not look like they will blow up.
I got those guns for overload testing, but have not shot any of them yet.
I also want to get a Marlin 336.
Cosmoline
Member
The business about the 94 being dangerous started when the salesmen needed to sell the new "improved" 94's with the lawyer safety. It's a lot of nonsense.
The rear locking lug is a limit on accuracy, I suppose, but not really strength. I've got a custom Big Bore that had been chambered for .458x2 Marlin. The previous owner cranked up the loads to the max. I'm not as brave, but he survived it.
The .30 WCF, in my handloading experience with the round, is inherently limited in power due to the small powder capacity. It also doesn't *NEED* to be hot loaded. So even if you could, why would you want to?
The rear locking lug is a limit on accuracy, I suppose, but not really strength. I've got a custom Big Bore that had been chambered for .458x2 Marlin. The previous owner cranked up the loads to the max. I'm not as brave, but he survived it.
The .30 WCF, in my handloading experience with the round, is inherently limited in power due to the small powder capacity. It also doesn't *NEED* to be hot loaded. So even if you could, why would you want to?
moooose102
Member
i for one believe that the half cock safey system is very adequet for hunting and shooting. what is unsafe about it is the shooter! i have carried my marlis through the woods for years, without any problems. there is no way to shoot it on half cock. BUT, GETTING BACK TO THE ORIGINAL POST GUYS, i am not so hot on hot rodding the 30-30 in a lever action gun. if you had a good bolt, or single shot, i might change my mind. but lever guns are just not all that strong. load to the max if you must, but i would load past that VERY SLOWLY AND CAREFULLY. hospial bills are so much more expensive than just going out and buying a more powerful rifle! and a lot more painful! a good brand new hunting rifle in 300 win mag will set you back roughly $1000.00 after you get all the goodies. a ride to the hospital, in an ambulance will eat that up before you even get to the hospital! i used to be all gun-ho on hot rodding cartridges. one goof up, where you nearly destroy a gun, or get hurt, will make you re-think all of that. i learned from experience. trust us here, and save yourself the greif! just don't do it!!!
higene
Member
Loading the 30-30
ranger335v your comment had me laughing so hard I was crying. That is some funny sh#t.
Seriously
The first rule of wildcatting is don't reinvent the .308. A few years ago I worked on a hot 30-30. I went Ackley Improved and really wrung out a 30-30. The problem with hot rodding the 30-30 is the case. With hot loads you get brass flow and the case gets thinner a quarter to 3/8 inch above the head. You want to see a grown man cry, pop a case head off resizing the case and spend days trying the get the rest of the case out of the die. I have had the same thing happen with a TC Contender on extraction but it is easier to get the case out.
Load 30-30s to book specks, maybe a little more. I used to go to the range just before hunting season when all the city boys were banging away with their 94s and 336s and pick up all the brass that they left. I'd take it home and load it up with gas checked 170 grain cast lead loads and shoot the s#!t out of it. 30-30s are quick to hit something with not fast bullet wise or long distance.
Get good at shooting your 30-30 standing, kneeling, & sitting, (from your pickup truck
). 30-30s got their name as a deer gun. Canadians have killed everything that lives in Canada with them not because that is the recommended gun but because that's what the had and they could shoot. Americans have killed black bear, elk, and antelope with them. So they can get the job done they just are not the best tool for all situations.
The top loads I did on a 30-30 AI case were with 110 and 125 gr bullets. If you want more knock down power in the 30-30 family go to a 375 Winchester (the old 38-55). That is basically a straight walled 30-30 case ( I have fire formed 375 cases from 30-30 shells). You want a 308 or 30-06 get one they are all over the place.
Attached picture shows the 30-30 family. 25-35 brass (I don't own one, just a case), AI - 110 Speer JSP, & 32 gr 4198, AI - 125 Nozler Ballistic tip 32 gr 4198, stock 30-30 - 170 Hornady & 25 gr 4198, 375 Winchester (fire formed from a 30-30 case) - 245 cast lead & 32 gr 4198.
Good luck and be safe,
Higene
ranger335v your comment had me laughing so hard I was crying. That is some funny sh#t.
Seriously
The first rule of wildcatting is don't reinvent the .308. A few years ago I worked on a hot 30-30. I went Ackley Improved and really wrung out a 30-30. The problem with hot rodding the 30-30 is the case. With hot loads you get brass flow and the case gets thinner a quarter to 3/8 inch above the head. You want to see a grown man cry, pop a case head off resizing the case and spend days trying the get the rest of the case out of the die. I have had the same thing happen with a TC Contender on extraction but it is easier to get the case out.
Load 30-30s to book specks, maybe a little more. I used to go to the range just before hunting season when all the city boys were banging away with their 94s and 336s and pick up all the brass that they left. I'd take it home and load it up with gas checked 170 grain cast lead loads and shoot the s#!t out of it. 30-30s are quick to hit something with not fast bullet wise or long distance.
Get good at shooting your 30-30 standing, kneeling, & sitting, (from your pickup truck
). 30-30s got their name as a deer gun. Canadians have killed everything that lives in Canada with them not because that is the recommended gun but because that's what the had and they could shoot. Americans have killed black bear, elk, and antelope with them. So they can get the job done they just are not the best tool for all situations.The top loads I did on a 30-30 AI case were with 110 and 125 gr bullets. If you want more knock down power in the 30-30 family go to a 375 Winchester (the old 38-55). That is basically a straight walled 30-30 case ( I have fire formed 375 cases from 30-30 shells). You want a 308 or 30-06 get one they are all over the place.
Attached picture shows the 30-30 family. 25-35 brass (I don't own one, just a case), AI - 110 Speer JSP, & 32 gr 4198, AI - 125 Nozler Ballistic tip 32 gr 4198, stock 30-30 - 170 Hornady & 25 gr 4198, 375 Winchester (fire formed from a 30-30 case) - 245 cast lead & 32 gr 4198.
Good luck and be safe,
Higene
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DEDON45
Member
Modern leverguns (like the Marlins) are indeed much stronger than the old ones from a century ago; however, the .30-30 case design is quite weak in comparison to other more modern cartridges; that brass is thin. If you want more power in a levergun, get one of the modern Marlin leverguns in one of the new higher-powered levergun cartridges with the HOrnday FTX bullets / rounds.
ForneyRider
Member
I loaded 150gr SP, Hornady 160gr, and Sierra 125gr JHP and the Hornady were most accurate at 100 yards.
3rd shot always seems to go awry, so we shoot twice, let the barrel cool and shoot again in a Marlin 336W. 160gr Hornady was happy at 2100fps or so.
3rd shot always seems to go awry, so we shoot twice, let the barrel cool and shoot again in a Marlin 336W. 160gr Hornady was happy at 2100fps or so.
qajaq59
Member
Only once have I ever worked up an accurate load in a 30-30 that was at the max . Generally I reach the right load long before I get there. And if it isn't accurate it doesn't matter how fast it's going, because you missed anyway.
Back in the early '80s I pushed the 30/30 envelpoe in a Thompson Center Contender with a 10" bull barrel.
I don't remember the load data but, pushed it until the primers flattened and the brass flowed. Had to push many of the cases out of that barrel. I was neck sizing and trying to find the hottest (and safe) load the would provide the best accuracy from that 10" barrel. This being said, I kept a close eye out for signs of barrel wear and even though of having it magnafluxed at one time just to see for sure whether the barrel could handle what I had been testing and still remain sound. I ended up trading that contender, with two other barrels, to my brother for a used Buick Wildcat. He continued to shoot factory loads without any problems. Kudos to TC Contenders.
Would not suggest trying this, as has been stated, with any lever rifle.
I don't remember the load data but, pushed it until the primers flattened and the brass flowed. Had to push many of the cases out of that barrel. I was neck sizing and trying to find the hottest (and safe) load the would provide the best accuracy from that 10" barrel. This being said, I kept a close eye out for signs of barrel wear and even though of having it magnafluxed at one time just to see for sure whether the barrel could handle what I had been testing and still remain sound. I ended up trading that contender, with two other barrels, to my brother for a used Buick Wildcat. He continued to shoot factory loads without any problems. Kudos to TC Contenders.
Would not suggest trying this, as has been stated, with any lever rifle.
lefteyedom
Member
In Hot Rodding one of the main way to improve performance is to replace the vehicle's motor with a more powerful one.
If you want to "HOT ROD" a 30-30 and you drive a single shot rifle then rechamber it for 30/40 Kraig. NEF/HR Handi rifle guys have been doing this for years.
Otherwise enjoy the old girl for what she is.
If you want to "HOT ROD" a 30-30 and you drive a single shot rifle then rechamber it for 30/40 Kraig. NEF/HR Handi rifle guys have been doing this for years.
Otherwise enjoy the old girl for what she is.
The Bushmaster
Member
32.0 grains of W-748 under a 170 grain Speer Hotcore flat point in Winchester or Remington cases properly trimmed and crimped. A safe and accurate load running right at 2,000 fps.
qajaq59
Member
Ayup......
Clark
Member
Sorry Remo-99, but I must respectfully disagree with your disagreement.
data I collected 5-16-2010
data I collected 2007-1-31:
What does it all mean?
1) I was right when I cross sectioned that 30-30 case head and the 270 case head and pronounced that SAAMI registration for pressure was NOT correlating with case head strength.
2) I was right when I said Speer was wrong about the 30-30 case head.
3) I produced data to refute Remo-99's challenge to my assertions.
R.W.Dale
Member
Clark was your "data" produced using a 30-30 that fully supports the case as with a break action single shot?
If so was your comparative 270 measurments made in the same type chamber?
If not then your "data" is simply not valid and is just another apples to oranges comparison by someone without access to real ballistics testing equipment.
If so was your comparative 270 measurments made in the same type chamber?
If not then your "data" is simply not valid and is just another apples to oranges comparison by someone without access to real ballistics testing equipment.
JustinCglass
Member
My point exactly.
If you want to get a lot of velocity, use a liter bullet and a but more powder
if you want more energy at impact site, you a heavy bullet with less powder
but please, to keep your gun from looking like that marlin 45-70,
just stick to the manual and you should find a great load for it!
Clark
Member
If anyone is concerned that case support affects case head strength tests, I will address it, otherwise...
qajaq59
Member
If you want to hot rod something I'd suggest a nice new bolt action.The old faithful 30-30 levers were built for dropping deer and hogs. And I might add, they're darn good at it.
Kernel
Member
Clark,
What brand of brass were you using? Do you think there are significant differences between the makes of .30-30 brass? If so, how would you rank them.
The way I read your test is: you loaded the rounds, observed the results, and used Quickload to predict the velocity (presumably, because you don't have a chrony). Correct?
What brand of brass were you using? Do you think there are significant differences between the makes of .30-30 brass? If so, how would you rank them.
The way I read your test is: you loaded the rounds, observed the results, and used Quickload to predict the velocity (presumably, because you don't have a chrony). Correct?
Clark
Member
Kernel,
That would be:
33 gr 51 kpsi R-P
34 gr 56 kpsi F C
35 gr 62 kpsi Win
36 gr 68 kpsi Win
37 gr 75 kpsi W-W
38 gr 83 kpsi F C
39 gr 92 kpsi Win
The brass is just used mixed brand.
They all look the same from the side, but the primers look a little different.
I have more confidence in Quickload when I get a case head of to fail at the same pressure with different powders and in different cartridges.
243, 260, 257RAI, 270, and .308 are all large Boxer primer pockets in 1889 Mauser case heads. If they all fail at 75kpsi with IMR4895, H322, H335, Varget, and H4350, then the constants for those powders in the QL library are more trusted. Even more confidence when the velocities match the chrono. Even more confidence when Sweet's von Mises calculations on case heads predict 77 kpsi and primer pocket failure.
I do not have a calculation for the 30-30 case head from Sweet.
I don't know if he reads this forum. He is more the African big game hunting kind of engineer.
The 6mmBR case head is so strong, the primer pocket does not fail before the primer pierces.
From cross sectioning, I can tell the 30-30 is even stronger.
That would be:
33 gr 51 kpsi R-P
34 gr 56 kpsi F C
35 gr 62 kpsi Win
36 gr 68 kpsi Win
37 gr 75 kpsi W-W
38 gr 83 kpsi F C
39 gr 92 kpsi Win
The brass is just used mixed brand.
They all look the same from the side, but the primers look a little different.
I have more confidence in Quickload when I get a case head of to fail at the same pressure with different powders and in different cartridges.
243, 260, 257RAI, 270, and .308 are all large Boxer primer pockets in 1889 Mauser case heads. If they all fail at 75kpsi with IMR4895, H322, H335, Varget, and H4350, then the constants for those powders in the QL library are more trusted. Even more confidence when the velocities match the chrono. Even more confidence when Sweet's von Mises calculations on case heads predict 77 kpsi and primer pocket failure.
I do not have a calculation for the 30-30 case head from Sweet.
I don't know if he reads this forum. He is more the African big game hunting kind of engineer.
The 6mmBR case head is so strong, the primer pocket does not fail before the primer pierces.
From cross sectioning, I can tell the 30-30 is even stronger.
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ForneyRider
Member
Shoot light bullets in 110, 125 or 130 gr. Don't need more horsepower, just lighter vehicle.
Kernel
Member
Clark,
Have not heard of this technique. Can you elaborate on those calculations, or provide a link. Google turned up nothing. I would be interested in understanding the math.
Have not heard of this technique. Can you elaborate on those calculations, or provide a link. Google turned up nothing. I would be interested in understanding the math.
Clark
Member
Read this, and then you show ME how to calculate the threshold of case head failure.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_Mises_yield_criterion
Scott Sweet aka assclown on the AR forum in 2004 did some calculations for me on the 223 and AK47 case heads
an old post somewhere else, no longer available, in response to a request from me, from an engineer that calculated the case head strengths using von mises formulas:
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