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I dont need no stinking CCW!

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Tropical Z, Aug 9, 2005.

  1. Tropical Z

    Tropical Z Well-Known Member

    Thats a friends opinion in Colorado.I inquired as to whether or not he planned on getting a CCW since Colorado is now a "shall issue" state.His reply ( and I kind of agree with him)was that he didnt need a "government permission slip" to defend himself and his family.That's kind of the way i've always believed.He's a tough ex-marine and a good guy-a real patriot! What's your take on this issue?
  2. R.H. Lee

    R.H. Lee Well-Known Member

    I agree with him, but with an eye on the consequences. Here in CA, it's a misdemeanor if the handgun is 'registered' to you, otherwise it's a felony. :uhoh:
  3. Taurus 66

    Taurus 66 Well-Known Member

    Morally he's doing the right thing. Legally he isn't. But one common-sensical act of survival trumps all the silly gun control laws a government could possibly muster.
  4. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

    Your friend is absolutely right in principle. The Second Amendment doesn't refer to the "...right of government-approved people to keep and bear arms."

    In Colorado—Denver excepted, of course, and possibly Boulder, as well—no permit is required to carry openly.
  5. dustind

    dustind Well-Known Member

    I agree with your friend, but you do have to be careful. What is right and what is legal or convenient are not always the same thing. I still have not gotten a permit yet, but I plan to before it gets cold enough for me to carry on a regular basis again.

    If I had to defend myself and did not have a permit it could make me look like the bad guy. Given how the legal system works I really don't need anything else going against me after I shoot someone. Plus it would increase the odds of me spending a night in jail even though unlicensed carry is only a gross misdemeanor.

    The only time in my life I have ever been searched or patted down was when I told an officer that I was heading to a shooting range after he asked where I was headed. He had stopped me for riding a motorcycle with my helmet's visor up (I was only going a few mph up to a stop sign). He then asked if I had a CCW permit, which I replied not yet, he then asked if I had any weapons on me. Luckily I had just met some THR members a bit earlier and one of them had put my rather heavy backpack in his car so I was legal at that moment. That could of been bad, it also could have been completely avoided had I either obeyed the silly traffic rule that should not apply at low speeds, or had not said anything incriminating.

    Sorry for rambling, anyway. If you are careful or do not carry often in my opinion you do not really need one if you look at it from a practical sense. You could also argue that the more people we have with permits out there the better it makes our side look.
  6. Technosavant

    Technosavant Well-Known Member

    In principle, I agree with him.

    In reality, it is impossible to guard your loved ones from the inside of a concrete cell.

    I would suggest that he, rather than bluster about his superior principles, work to get Vermont/Alaska style CCW laws passed. Then he can carry without fear of running afoul of the law.
  7. Zach S

    Zach S Well-Known Member

    No such thing.

    Anyway, I have mixed emotions on the subject. While I dont feel that one should have to get a permission slip, I dont want to hear about a good person getting locked up for not having a simple piece of paper (or plastic) that they could have easily gotten.

    Since CO is shall-issue, and he has the option of being legally armed, he should arm himself legally. JMO.
  8. 1911 guy

    1911 guy Well-Known Member

    Agree with Zach S

    The Constitution provides us the right to keep and bear arms, but like so much else of our freedoms, that has been eroded to the point of getting a note from mother to exercise those freedoms. While I wholeheartedly agree in principle with the fellow from Colorado, I agree that with the ability to stay within the law, even though it stinks, he should get the permit.
  9. Harve Curry

    Harve Curry Well-Known Member

    A PERMIT to exercise our Rights never has sit well with me.
    It is a combination of self inflicted citizen & firearms registration, that we would not have approved of if we were'nt doing it to ourselves. :banghead:

    At a public meetimg, when CCW's were first beginning I asked the NRA's Tanya Metaska about this and her reply to me was
    "Well Mr.______ some of us wanted to be able to carry in our lifetimes and waiting for Vermont style carry laws was not do able".

    The gun control advocates and the LEO organizations got us to do to ourselves, much easier then passing guncontrol/registration laws.
  10. logical

    logical Well-Known Member

    Personally, I have no problem with limiting the right to carry to non-felons who have at least minimal training in using a firearm. If a states shall-issue law stays within those bounds....fine by me and I'll gladly stop by every 5 years and pick up my permission slip.
  11. Sindawe

    Sindawe Well-Known Member

    I do hope you remembered to renew your "Free Speech" license, along with your "Religion of your choice" license when they came due. :banghead:

    Moral/ethical correctness and legal are often complete strangers, sadly.
  12. WT

    WT Well-Known Member

    I agree with him. Obviously he is a true believer when it comes to the 2nd Amendment. That is very rare.
  13. yorec

    yorec Well-Known Member

    Right is right afterall.... Not.

    Morally he is correct, legally he'll end up in jail.
    Fact is that what he proposes to do is illegal.
    Fact is it shouldn't be.
    Fact is my family needs my butt outside the graybar hotel.
    I'll keep carrying my permission slip, distasteful as it is.
  14. tyme

    tyme Well-Known Member

    Many older ccw holders used to carry when it was illegal. They don't want to have to defend themselves in court if they get caught, so they pay (bribe?) the government to let them go if they're ever caught with a gun.

    If he wants to carry in violation of the unconstitutional (and thus theoretically invalid) state law requiring licensure, fine. He's doing the right thing by carrying a gun to begin with, and he has the moral high ground. He may get stomped, but that's beside the point.

    And you told her that if she truly believed in self defense, she would be carrying anyway?
  15. gunner03

    gunner03 Well-Known Member

    I agree we should not have to ask.I also think being picked-up with no permit can and usually is used to make gun owners look criminal.The more permits issued the more THEY get the idea we count.
  16. RavenVT100

    RavenVT100 Well-Known Member

    Your friend is entitled to believe what he does, but he should get the permit if he wishes to stay legal.

    Let's face it, if you end up in a shooting incident you are going to have to answer to everything about your personal life--your membership in the NRA, your posting of political opinions on this message board, the fact you owned "more than one gun" (OMG) and so on and so forth. Not doing anything illegal will not save you from an enormous attack on your character and person that will come along with an attempt to prosecute you and make you look like a reckless, gun happy lunatic.
  17. dolanp

    dolanp Well-Known Member

    I would call it civil disobedience, and that has consequences even though we feel it is the right thing.
  18. scottgun

    scottgun Well-Known Member

    In a perfect world, your friend is right. In Colorado, he is wrong.

    It has come down to having a certain amount of procedures and paperwork to seperate the good guys from the bad guys. If he were ever to get into an incident he would be seen as a bad guy for not playing by the rules.

    I agree with him in principle, but disagree in practice.
  19. Hawk

    Hawk Well-Known Member

    I have a different take. Although everybody is right about what "should be" vs. what "is", getting the CHL has a small advantage in addition to the ones already mentioned.

    It swells "the list" by one.

    The "list" being a state run census of votes that any anti-gun politician KNOWS he can't get. Whaddya suppose would happen if the number of licensees exceeded half of the usual voter turnout? You could turn over every rock in the state and not find a single "anti" running for office.

    The "cause" benefits a little from every CHL issued.
  20. Correia

    Correia Moderator Emeritus

    As a good lawyer friend of mine once said about stuff like this:

    "Guys like me start at $250 bucks an hour. Pony up activist boy."

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