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If you had final say on US firearm laws.....you would?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by sonny, Jun 11, 2003.

  1. sonny

    sonny Well-Known Member

    What rules would stay ?....what rules would go?......What new laws would you enact?......what kind of message or stance would you put on it to get the anti's to go along with or understand your plan?
    I would first get the FACTS out there and let people see how the antis have lied and lied again about all things firearms......I would then introduce a formal traing program that was FREE and encourage ANYONE to participate........let's face it the guns are out there and people should know how to use them safely and resposably.
    I would focus on the FACTS at hand and not make the masses pay for the irresponsible behavier of a few.
    I would eliminate the "assualt weapons ban" and allow people that have RTKBA untill they have proven themselves to be a mennace to society.
    Concealed carry across state lines?...that's a no brainer!
    I could go on and on but I'm interested in others opinions for now,I'll jump back in later.
    Before I go ....there is one thing that may be unpopular to many but I would consider a mandatory "drivers licence like" firearms test to be taken ONCE....before you can enjoy a lifetime of firearms freedom.....what do you think?
  2. Preacherman

    Preacherman Well-Known Member

    Sonny, nice points. Here are the rules/laws/regulations I'd put in place:

    1. The Second Amendment to the Constitution means what it says. The "arms" it refers to are any weapon that can be carried (i.e. "borne") and operated by a single person, in the standing position, without assistance from another person, provided that that weapon is not capable of firing anything other than solid ammunition (i.e. no explosive or incendiary projectiles).

    2. Any US citizen or legal permanent resident is covered by the Second Amendment to the Constitution. Non-residents are excluded, and may not keep and bear arms.

    3. Anyone covered by the Second Amendment to the Constitution (see 2 above) is entitled to legally carry a firearm concealed on his/her person, concealed in his/her vehicle, etc.

    4. For safety reasons, legitimate authorities may forbid unauthorized persons to carry and/or conceal firearms on premises or transportation vehicles (including motor vehicles, aircraft, ships, etc.) under their control. However, any person who qualifies for the record on a law-enforcement-standard course with his/her firearm, so that his/her competence with that firearm to a legally recognized and statutorily mandated standard is verified, shall be exempt from such restrictions. Such qualification shall be certified by the issue of a nationally-valid licence or permit testifying that the person concerned has met the required standard. Annual re-qualification is required.

    5. Any death or injury caused by a firearms owner due to his/her negligence, carelessness or stupidity shall be punished as if the death/injury had been deliberately inflicted by criminal action.

    6. There shall be no restriction on hollow-point or other defensive ammunition for use by those authorized to keep and bear arms (see 2 above). However, if law enforcement has a legitimate and verifiable concern about the availability of certain types of ammunition, due to the risk to public safety it causes, this ammunition may be restricted from public access, provided that the case for such restriction must be made in court, and pronounced valid and defensible by at least a US Circuit Court of Appeals. No arbitrary restrictions shall be permitted.

    7. Any and all national, state and local laws and regulations that may infringe upon the rights listed above will be immediately invalid and unenforceable.

    How's that for a start? :D
  3. Henry Bowman

    Henry Bowman Senior Member

    The National Firearms Act of 1934 and every federal gun thereafter is repealed. The 2nd Amendment applies to the states also. Any restrictions must also apply to LEO and military (except for nuclear devices).

    There's a start.
  4. Glock Glockler

    Glock Glockler Well-Known Member

    2nd Amendment applies to the states also.

    The BoR, as originally intended, is only a limitation on Federal power, not on state power. After the 14th Amendment, when the balance of power shifted dramatically in the direction of the Federal govt, it put the Feds in charge of what would be determined by the states themselves.

    Back to the original question: I would deep six all Federal gun control laws. Personally, I don't see why non-citizens should not be allowed to keep and bear arms, are they subhuman? Do they gain or loose a chromosome when they cross the border? If we believe that they are human, then they are entitled to all human rights and it is the responsibility of our govt to enforce those rights within our borders.

    RKBA is a human right, not an American privilage.
  5. jsalcedo

    jsalcedo Well-Known Member

    Repeal of all weapons and ammunition laws.

    No one without billions dollars is going to be able to build a nuke.
    Americans with Billions of dollars don't build nukes.

    I'm tired of all the laws concerning what one "MIGHT" do.

    Wait till someone does it then throw away the key.
  6. Erik

    Erik Well-Known Member

    I would allow unlimited access to firearms, any make and model.

    I would allow unrestricted concealed carry.

    If you commit a felony with a firearm, you forfeit the right to keep and bear arms.

    If you commit a felony while in possession of a firearm, and it can be reasonably asserted that your possession of said firearm was to further your criminal activity, you forfeit the right to keep and bear arms.

    If you are deemed mentally incompetent, you forfeit the right to keep and bear arms until such time as you are deemed no longer mentally incompetent.

    States would be able to pass restrictions on juveniles.

    Municipalities would be able to pass restrictions on open carry.

    The federal government and the states would be able to place limited restrictions on where firearms are not to be carried by the general public, provided that on site secure storage is provided.
  7. MrAcheson

    MrAcheson Well-Known Member

    Ummm actually building a nuke provided you already have some of the necessary knowledge probably only takes a few million. Someone bought a complete war-surplus nuclear weapons plant from the US government once (because of a clerical screw up from someone at DoD). Total cost was only a few hundred thousand, but the government made him sell it back to them instead of selling it to the Aussies for a big profit.

    Granted your nuke won't be small and cute, but it will probably work if you can get the materials together. Since we are deregulating government weapons restrictions then getting the materials together will become much much easier.

    Private ownership of nukes is stupid stupid stupid. Even if its rare. Someone will eventually do it and they will likely be a nutcase or group of nutcases.

    Personally I would get rid of everything except 1934, because frankly I don't like individuals having select-fire weapons. Sorry, I'm not a libertarian. I would apply the 2nd A to the states.
  8. jdege

    jdege Well-Known Member

    1. Repeal all laws restricting firearms and ammunition sales.

    2. Use the militia authority to require firearms training in all schools. (I'd allow students to opt-out, but the availability of the training would be mandatory.)

    3. Impose a $500/year tax on every citizen who does not own a firearm - to be implemented by requiring that every citizen must either present either a working firearm or a certificate of having paid the tax in order to vote. Funds raised through this tax would be dedicated to providing firearms to those who cannot afford them.
  9. Henry Bowman

    Henry Bowman Senior Member

    Mr. A - The NFA '34 is about as blatantly un-2A as it gets. What's wrong with full auto. If they are so bad, the LEO's and military should not have them. The 2A is all about allowing us to stay on par with our own military.
  10. tiberius

    tiberius Well-Known Member

    One law:

    Cary what you want, where you want...until you mess up.
  11. Jeeper

    Jeeper Well-Known Member

    I know some here definately wont agree with this

    Only Laws
    1. No violent criminals(felony) or mentally ill allowed to own firearms
    2. Background check required for all purchases with more complicated ones for Class 3 type weapons.
    3. If you ever use a firearm to commit a crime you lose right FOREVER
    4. Age restrictions set by states
    5. CCW reciprocity like DL
  12. jsalcedo

    jsalcedo Well-Known Member

    Some of these suggestions propose stricter gun control than we currently have.

    Nation wide licensing, backround checks, special taxes. Phooey!

    I think under current law there should be a way for felons to earn rights back.

    Too many things are felonies as it stands right now.

    If someone wants to disarm you all they have to do is make the
    felony bar so low that no one will ever be able to keep above it.

    For example the paleontologist who bought the rights from a native American Rancher to dig up a T Rex in Montana was convicted of a felony when it turned out the rancher lied and the fossil was on public land.

    Or the folks who were convicted of felony drug possesion in 1968 for having one joint.

    Insider traders or folks that run a foul of a tax code don't have the right to defend themselves or their families?

    Come on guys violent felons already have access to guns and they always will. Laws forbidding felons to own guns isn't going to magically disarm them.

    I say no gun control for anyone because gun control does not work period.

    Punish people for their actions not their posessions.
  13. Hkmp5sd

    Hkmp5sd Well-Known Member

    - Anyone may own any type of firearm and purchase that firearm from any individual or company on Earth, without import restrictions or additional taxes.

    - Criminals that have served their time may own firearms.

    - Mentally ill persons deemed safe enough to walk our streets without supervision may own fireams.

    - Parents/Guardians may restrict the firearm access of minors in their care until they reach the age of 18.

    - Anyone may carry a firearm openly or concealed anywhere they desire.

    - Anyone convicted of murder, regardless of the type of weapon used, will be executed in the town square at noon on the first Saturday occuring one year after his/her sentencing. All appeals must be submitted during that timeframe. No extensions.

    - Anyone using a weapon during the commission of a crime shall received 10 years in prison, provided no one was injured. If there were injuries, the individual will receive 20 years in prison for each person injured. No probation or parole.

    - Any person using a weapon in a crime that has a previous weapon conviction shall be sentenced to life in prison without parole or execution, at their choice.
  14. sonny

    sonny Well-Known Member

    I disagree with a few things on this thread.....but in short I disagree with the anyone, anywhere, anything goes mentality.
    My opinion is that it is not that simple although I like the premise,I just think it would lead to problems.
  15. sonny

    sonny Well-Known Member

    Hkmp5sd.....My last post was not directed at you ...I agree with a bunch of the stuff you suggest ....just not all of it
  16. Feanaro

    Feanaro Well-Known Member

    If I had the final say I would repeal all the firearms laws other than the purchase laws at eighteen(but not possession), no criminals can purchase either(with the exceptions below). The mentally ill should be judged on a case by case basis by at least ten doctors.

    Then I would make all crimes worthy of thirty years (or more) in jail or death. If they don't deserve at least thirty years then you go to a rehabilitation center where they teach you a trade and get you some counceling. If you commit one more felonies you go to jail for forty years, period. No exceptions unless you are proven innocent. Death sentences will have a waiting period of three years. Even if you are in the middle of an appeal when the date rolls around, you are outta luck.

    Once released, after five years of good conduct you are given a clean slate. The felony is still on record but you revert back to normal citizen status. Commit one more crime and we dump you in the sea between us and Cuba with an inflated tire and some shark repellant.
  17. Gordon Fink

    Gordon Fink Well-Known Member

    “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.â€

    Weapon laws should begin and end right there. If anything, I would amend the article to remove the confusing militia clause and the extraneous comma.

    Teaching firearms safety in the shools sounds good, but the paltry number of gun-related accidents wouldn’t justify it at this point.

    ~G. Fink
  18. LawDog

    LawDog Moderator Emeritus cum Laude

    First off: Repeal all firearms laws.

    Second: Pass a law that requires a bar code on the back of all driver's licenses/ID cards. One set of digits to be issued to anyone who has been convicted of a violent felony, or anyone who has a mental illness which gives him/her a tendency towards violence.

    The bar code set belonging to violent felons/violent mentally ill would light up a red light on a bar code scanner -- any and all other numbers would light up a green light.

    Sell the bar code readers at cost to anyone with an FFL, and at normal rates to Law Enforcement Agencies.

    Red light means that you can't buy firearms.

    Green light means you can buy any weapon (gun, knife, sword, club, cannon, etc.) which you have the money to pay for: full-auto, semi-auto, silenced, .50 cal., .70 cal., whatever.

    Red light means that you cannot carry a weapon off of your personal property.

    Green light means that you can carry a gun, knife, sword, club, chainsaw, whatever; concealed, open, taped to your forehead, however; and you can carry it anywhere, only excepting secure areas of jails, prisons, courtrooms; and on personal property where the owner doesn't want weapons carried.

    Voila! -- Instant Check, without all the Washington DC hassles.

    Third: Pass a law making it a high-level misdemeanor to intentionally or knowingly carry a weapon during the commission of a violent crime; or for the purposes of committing a violent crime.

    Make it a traffic ticket to intentionally or knowingly carry a weapon onto private property where the owner of the property has clearly indicated that he does not want anybody to carry weapons; or past the secure areas of jails, prisons, or courtrooms.

    Hmm. I think that is the entire Weapons Section of the LawDog Penal Code.

  19. Boats

    Boats member

    Enforce the Second Amendment and write out the ban on "cruel and unusual punishment" for violent offenders in the Eighth.

    Repeal all current federal gun control laws. Select fire weapons would only be made available to those who had not comitted a violent felony in the past fifteen years and who could also show that they had a quality gunsafe in which to store it (them) when not in close proximity to the weapon(s). Don't want anyone telling you to buy a safe for your more dangerous tools? Then you will have to accept strict liability for damages if a criminal gets hold of your full auto weapon and uses it in the commission of a violent crime following a break in of your place where a safe would have prevented the loss.

    Tax credits of $2000 every five years for the purchase of a quality gunsafe.

    Mental incompetents would be barred the possession of arms. Independent review is required but can be done after the fact to protect the community during the pendancy of the hearing. The right can be restored by a showing of competence.

    As a DoD allocation, require the defense budget to buy from private contractors ammunition to create a running 500 million total round national surplusage of equal parts each .30-06, 7.62, 5.56, .45ACP, and 9mm ball, tracer, and AP and resell it all to qualified (no felony criminal record for past 15 years and/or violent misdemeanor in the past five ) civilian buyers at cost with free shipping, a sort of a Super CMP. The CMP would also be authorized to sell surplus M-14s, M-16s and various SAWs to qualified buyers with the requisite storage or acceptance of strict liability. Your tax dollars finally at work on making every small arms munition for the past 100 years widely available and cheap to practice with.

    Using federal lands used or acquired in each of the nation's congressional districts, establish at least one full scale shooting range with a minimum 1000 yard rifle range space permitting.

    First firearms offense involving violence 12 years--no parole. Second offense 25 years minimum to life. Kill or maim anyone in the commission of a felony, you get a firing squad of civilian volunteers after one mandatory appeal at the state level and one mandatory appeal at the federal level. You will be given a chance at a DNA test if one is demanded for your defense against a crime where such evidence may exonerate you.
  20. Greg L

    Greg L Well-Known Member

    The good Padre sez:
    So any rifle/pistol/shotgun in any caliber that there has ever been a tracer round made for that caliber is banned? I don't think that there has ever been a .458 Win Mag tracer manufactured but other than that most every other one is gone.

    Kind of blows the whole "The BOR covers basic human rights that you get because you are human rather than where you live" argument right out of the water. Why does my cousin visiting from England not have the right to defend my kids from attack during the time that he volunteered to watch them while Mrs. L. & I went out to dinner and a movie.

    So all the people who have posted here about having a ND should be in jail? Deliberate intent usually carries a much harsher punishment than negligence.

    But an international "law" passed by the UN (like WJC wanted us to submit to) is ok?

    I think I'll stick with "The gun is a tool, if you shoot someone it is the same as hitting them with a hammer or a shovel" crowd. How you managed to hurt (either physically or fiscally) someone shouldn't be given more weight than the fact that you actually did.

    Tiberius has the right idea.


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