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Ignorant statement of the day....

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by saturno_v, Nov 28, 2012.

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  1. saturno_v

    saturno_v Well-Known Member

    Today at the range a quick chat with a nice but "know it all" man in his sixties (I guess)

    He categorically stated "you cannot compare the 40 to the 45, it is exactly like comparing a 32 ACP or a 380 ACP to a 9mm :scrutiny:

    I respectfully replied that the energy level of the 40 S&W can match the same figures for some 45 +P loadings while the 9mm does exceed the energy level of a 380 or 32 ACP by ~50% or more and the sectional density of the 40 common loadings is the same of the common 45 offering while the 9mm popular loadings SD significantly exceed the 380 and even more the 32 ACP...

    He did look at me puzzled and did not reply....I thought I would share....
  2. Inebriated

    Inebriated Well-Known Member

    Don't let people know that the differences in the big three (9mm, .40, .45) are so slim.

    They'll start taking all my 9mm off the shelves.
  3. creeper1956

    creeper1956 Well-Known Member

    You hit him with facts. Shame on you, don't you know that you should respect your elders... by blindly agreeing with any mythology they want to rattle off?

    I shouldn't talk... I'm closer to 60 than 50.

    Hey! You kids get off my lawn!!! :cuss:
  4. Shadow 7D

    Shadow 7D Well-Known Member

    I usually just look at them all starry eyed and do my best little rascals "gee mister, really"
    then proceed to dump my BUG into the foil pie tin (I like how it sounds when you hit em)

    and point out that I doubt that guy is going to be arguing about sectional density...
  5. TarDevil

    TarDevil Well-Known Member

    Reminds me of a BBQ I recently attended...guy said, "I prefer a .45 Long Colt to a regular .45 Colt...and there IS a difference."

    I bit my lip.
  6. SDDL-UP

    SDDL-UP Well-Known Member

    Here's the way I like to look at it...

    As far as bullet cross section goes 7 rounds of 45ACP = 10 rounds 40S&W = 13 rounds 9mm

    The smaller rounds will put more energy into the target, not round to round, but magazine to magazine.

    It's all about trade offs!
  7. Skribs

    Skribs Well-Known Member

    The energy isn't what's important; the hole in the target is. And, assuming similar bullet construction, the .45 will make a bigger hole than the .40. That said, most similiar designs will be roughly the same overall, it's just the .45 will penetrate slightly farther and/or expand slightly wider.

    SDDL-UP, actually that's incorrect. Let's take a very common pistol, the Glock. You're comparing 13, 15, and 17 across the board. So you have in each magazine (assuming unexpanded for simplicity):
    (.45/2)^2*3.14 * 13 = 2.06 in^2
    (0.40/2)^2*3.14 * 15 = 1.88 in^2
    (0.36/2)^2*3.14 * 17 = 1.73 in^2

    Quick and dirty napkin math, but per magazine you'll get bigger holes out of the .45, at least in this comparison.

    In the end, though, I'll take the 9. Simply because I have more chances to hit something important.
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2012
  8. Patrick Gookin

    Patrick Gookin Well-Known Member

    The 15 should be a 17 there, but you used a 17 in the math, so the outcome is still correct.
  9. AFDavis11

    AFDavis11 Well-Known Member

    What other math and science subjects can we utilize to argue about caliber selection? :neener:
  10. ku4hx

    ku4hx Well-Known Member

    Some of us old farts just can't deal with getting old and tend to cling to the ideas of our youth. Why, I once met a man who claimed a 45 ACP hit to a man's finger would spin him around and knock him down.

    But one thing's for sure, we'll all be one of those old windbags one of these days trying to figure out the latest do-dad. At least we will if we live that long.
  11. Fotno

    Fotno Well-Known Member

    My next door neighbor (70 years old) keeps free range chickens. I've been trying to explain to him that the only thing he needs roosters for is more chickens, the hens can lay eggs all by themselves. Of course I "Don't know what I'm talking about" so he has lots and lots of chickens.

    As my grandmother was fond of saying; "There's nothing wrong with 'don't know', it's 'won't learn' that matters."
  12. 3leggeddog

    3leggeddog Well-Known Member

    wow, dont you just hate know it alls ;)
  13. TAKtical

    TAKtical Well-Known Member

    My favorite was when a senior citizen asked if I liked his gun and I said "yeah thats a nice 1911" and he said "i dont think its a 1911, its called a dan wesson"
  14. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Well-Known Member

    The old .45 Long Colt for .45 Colt makes me want to call .45 Schofield the ".45 Short Colt."

    The cavalry-era Army issued .45 Schofield cartridges for use in the Schofield revolver and the Colt Single Action Army revolver which also took the longer .45 Colt cartridge. That's the only reason the .45 Colt gets called .45 Long Colt.
  15. Carl N. Brown

    Carl N. Brown Well-Known Member

    Back to opening post, I like to compare .40 S&W to .45 ACP 180gr loadings. i consider them equivalent in the same bullet weights.
  16. Skribs

    Skribs Well-Known Member

    This is one of the best quotes I've read in a while.
  17. saturno_v

    saturno_v Well-Known Member

    According to this theory a 45 ACP would be more effective than a 357 magnum.....which clearly is not...

    Actually the 40 S&W seems to be a better penetrator compared to the 45 especially against light barriers....
  18. Corpral_Agarn

    Corpral_Agarn Well-Known Member

    I have an old timer friend that gets all worked up when I go shoot to practice.
    "Just throwing your money away!" He says.
    "What you need to practice for? just line up the sights and pull the trigger," he says.
    I take everything with a grain of salt from most "experts."
  19. Skribs

    Skribs Well-Known Member

    Do you have intrinsic proof to back this up? Or just quotes about the .357 as a "manstopper" and the failed one-shot-stop statistics?

    Also note I didn't just say "the diameter of the hole" I said "the hole". There are many factors here, including penetration depth, that make up the difference. The point is, you can talk about energy numbers all you want, but its what actually happens in the target that matters. That's more up to bullet constructon than anything else.
  20. JR47

    JR47 Well-Known Member

    Could it be that he was talking about dry-firing? Even the best shooters recommend that.

    As for the .40 vs. .45 question, who cares? Many departments are actually going either to the 9x19, or the .45 ACP again, in order to enable officers to qualify without the snappy recoil of the .40 S&W.

    The .40 S&W guns are essentially upgraded 9x19 platforms, adding more power to a small platform is always a great way to add more flinch to a new shooter.
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