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Imr xbr 8208

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by lakecitybrass, Mar 4, 2013.

  1. lakecitybrass

    lakecitybrass Well-Known Member

    I bought some of this last year mostly for use in a 6 BR bolt gun, but people have claimed that this powder is quite good in an AR-15 .223. A very reliable person I know personally - among others - has said so, but when I loaded 23.2 or 23.4 grains in a Winchester case and the 77 grain Sierra, I have experienced cycling problems (not every time) In slow fire, the bolt will fail to go all the way back. In a rapid fire string it has not jammed, however. The barrel is a Wilson 26 inch with a Bill Wylde chamber. IMR gives 23.2 as a max load with the 77 grain bullet. Are there any of you who have experience with 8208?
    Thanks, John
  2. BoilerUP

    BoilerUP Well-Known Member

    23.8gr XBR with a 77gr Nosler CC in a 18" 1:8 5.56 Black Hole Weaponry barrel produced 2683fps in pressure testing; 23.5gr produced 2658fps.

    Both cycled just fine with rifle length gas & carbine buffer, and provided better than 0.75" @ 100yd accuracy.
  3. Shmackey

    Shmackey Well-Known Member

    XBR is my preferred powder for .223 (and .308), and I've never had a single failure of any kind running less-than-max (or max) loads through my Colt AR.
  4. lakecitybrass

    lakecitybrass Well-Known Member

    today's results

    I loaded some 77 grain Sierra loads with 23.6 & 23.8 grains of XBR 8208 and the bolt did not lock back. The primers showed no real pressure signs.

    By contrast, I shot some H4895 loads (23.0 grains) and the gun functioned perfectly. The same for a RE-15 load with 24.0 grains.

    I just am looking for an answer why this happens. Others on different forums don't have the experience that I am having.
  5. lakecitybrass

    lakecitybrass Well-Known Member

    I may be onto something. Today I loaded some test loads with 23.1 grains - on the weaker side - and some heavier stuff. Before I shot, I lubed the clean bolt & carrier with the home made "red death" lube and the gun cycled fine. Maybe something simple as that?...

    Most people I have read about this on other forums as well as some this one shoot 23.2 grains. Thanks for any suggestions.

  6. Scott_R

    Scott_R Well-Known Member

    Great powder for 223. I like it for 77SMK, 69SMK, 52SMK and others.

    CFE 223 is another great one to try, if you haven't already.

    Hodgdon list the max for the 77SMK @ 23.2. My <moa load is 23.1. 2611fps in a 16" barrel 1:8 twist.
  7. lakecitybrass

    lakecitybrass Well-Known Member

    Thank you Scott. I spoke with a barrel maker in Portland and he thought perhaps the high pressure loads could possibly have expanded the case enough to impede cycling. He said I should try keeping the bolt wet with LSA, his personal choice. John ought to know.
  8. Grumulkin

    Grumulkin Well-Known Member

    If the load doesn't consistently cycle the gun, it's probably a little too low. As for the case expanding to impede cycling; I highly doubt it.

    Look at the case. If the case is expanding too much, there will be scuff marks on it. I suspect the gun would tear the rim off the case before cycling would be impeded with a high pressure load. If the pressure is low, you may see soot on the neck and shoulder and maybe even down on the body. Look in the barrel after shooting; if there is powder residue, the pressure is too low.
  9. Scott_R

    Scott_R Well-Known Member

    In my workup on this load, I did go as low as 22.0 and as high as 23.7 with no cycling issues whatsoever. The math of the workup put a particular step at 23.1, which turned out to shoot the best for me. Had I been paying attention I would have adjusted that load to the listed Max of 23.2. Apparently I wasn't paying attention.

    Oh, the rifle I use for this load is also a Wylde chambered barrel.
    This would be my general line of thinking as well, but it's obviously not the case in this instance, don't you agree?

    The 1st post listed two charges that are at, or above max.

    Anyway, I hope you're on to something with the "wet" bolt/carrier.

    Is this a new barrel/rifle?

    I'm certainly interested in what eventually solves this problem for you. It's a great powder bullet combo that I would hate to loose from my toolkit.
  10. ole farmerbuck

    ole farmerbuck Well-Known Member

    8208 is all I use in my AR's with 40 to 55gr bullets. I use BL-C2 in the bolts only because I have so much of it.
  11. lakecitybrass

    lakecitybrass Well-Known Member

    This is a Wylde chamber in a Wilson match barrel. I have had cycling problems with high end loads - 23.9 grains as well as 23.1 grains, all the while the RE-15, (24 grains) H4895 (23 grains)& Varget (24 grains)had no problems at all. I have not looked for scuff marks, But I will. What is odd is that when I practice with rapid fire strings - 2 & 8 round loadings, there hasn't been a jam, only in single loading. As I wrote, once I lubed the bolt & bolt carrier it began to function even with 23.1 grains. The trouble with testing is that it eats up components which as you all know are difficult to replace at this time.

    This powder gives my the most accurate groups off the bench at 100 yards.(the only local range I have) I really want to shoot this in Phoenix next month.
    The barrel is fairly new with only a match or two shot with it. Less than 500 rounds through it.

    Thanks to all of you. (I am not alone with 8208 cycling problems)

    John - Albany, Oregon
  12. popper

    popper Well-Known Member

    Won't lock back on empty? XBR is faster, full load will cycle bolt faster. Is the mag catch in good shape, spring OK? I assume single load is from the mag - check the mag catch Stovepipe - same problem. Use mobil1 or moly grease on the bolt?
  13. lakecitybrass

    lakecitybrass Well-Known Member

    Good morning Pop,
    The cycling was with a Bobsled as well as a 20 round GI magazine. Your point is well taken, but this stuff was what I used with the other non 8208 loads and there was no problem. In the past, I have had worn boltstops and crummy magazines, but not this time.

    The lube I used is the formula the national guard team was using. I also have some LSA to use. Grease seems to pick up grit - at least the stuff I tried to use years ago did. I have not tried Mobil 1.

    To give you another hint : I am a full blooded Swede (stubborn) with a lot of years behind me.
  14. ole farmerbuck

    ole farmerbuck Well-Known Member

    From what i've read and noticed myself, 8208 likes to be loaded towards the higher end. I have no trouble with it cycling 40gr through 55gr. I use it in 5 AR's. Interesting.
  15. lakecitybrass

    lakecitybrass Well-Known Member

    Well, what troubled me from the beginning is what I read from several reliable competitors who reported the same load - 77 grain Sierra & 23.2grains - give or take a tenth of a grain, and suffered no malfuntions. Same bullets, same chamber. One shooter suggested that a CLE chamber would require slightly lower charges.
  16. ole farmerbuck

    ole farmerbuck Well-Known Member

    My chamber are .223 rem. Nice n tight.
  17. lakecitybrass

    lakecitybrass Well-Known Member

    You realize that there are different .223/5.56 chambers out there.
  18. ole farmerbuck

    ole farmerbuck Well-Known Member

    Mine are Krieger barrels. They cut the chambers.
  19. lakecitybrass

    lakecitybrass Well-Known Member

    It does not matter if Krieger makes your barrels or anyone else. There are a handful of different chamber dimensions that every barrel maker uses. Krieger uses a pattern that is available - I sincerely doubt that krieger invented their own. There are chamber standards - otherwise there would be chaos for reloaders.
  20. ole farmerbuck

    ole farmerbuck Well-Known Member

    I was just trying to tell you they asked me what i wanted, 5.56,223 rem or wylde. I said .223. I use the same fl die for all of the Kriegers.But I did find out I can neck size if I want to, 2 or 3 times but I dont.

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