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Lawrence Rod & Gun Club - BEWARE!

Discussion in 'Competition Shooting' started by otasan, Apr 28, 2005.

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  1. otasan

    otasan Well-Known Member

    Beware. Their website invites the public to their 3rd Saturday of the Month pin shoots. BUT, if you are capable of shooting five pins with five shots at 50(!)feet, they are going to start dumping on you.

    I drove 100 miles from Lebanon, NH down to their nice range, and it wasn't a half an hour until they added 3 pins to my tables, and then started taking rounds out of my magazines.

    I was VERY GOOD about it. I just love shooting pins, no matter how much of a challenge it is.

    After an hour, they just told me to sit down and not shoot. On a nice, sunny 16April2005, I had better things to do than just watch pin shooting. I left. For the first time in 27 years of competition handgun shooting, I was made to feel very unwelcome at a public shooting event. I did NOTHING to deserve it, except, perhaps, to shoot well.

    And no, I wasn't using a $2000 pin gun and prancing around doing the "Rocky" dance. I was setting pins and staying safe. I was friendly, humble, and helpful. My firearm was a Springfield Armory M1911A1 .45 ACP uncomped with iron sights.

    Envy is such an evil sin.

    Also, they DO NOT ensure that the just-fired handguns are unloaded and safe before they send the pinsetters downrange. I witnessed a shooter leave an S&W .45 autopistol with its slide locked back over a LOADED magazine on the firing line table as the pin setters went downrange. :what:
  2. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Sounds like a place to avoid. I can't believe they were giving you grief for winning...downloading your magazines? Holy cow. That's insanely rude to even ask to do, let alone force on you.

    Run, don't walk.

    - Gabe
  3. Tijeras_Slim

    Tijeras_Slim Well-Known Member

    I've never heard of such behavior. :mad:
  4. otasan

    otasan Well-Known Member

    Lawrence (MA) Pin Shoot

    In 26 years of competition handgun shooting, I hadn't seen such sour grapes either.

    One of the club's officers wrote to me and defended their actions, saying that the other shooters could not have any fun if only one shooter was winning. He also said that it was not a shooting match that existed to "line the pockets of the top shooter."

    Yet, to my surprise, it was their rules that made it "winner take all." No $$ for 2nd place.

    They also gave me grief for taking two four-round magazines to the table, while everyone else had one six rounder. I wanted the spare mag nearby if I dropped that initial mag after a stoppage. I never intended to shoot more than four shots. They, of course, called it "cheating."

    This place has been shooting pins for at least three years, and yet there was no one there on 16Apr05 to challenge a 49-year-old man in their man-on-man elimination competition. In the final heat, they required me to shoot at 10 pins with 12 rounds (two six-round mags) against a shooter who had 6 pins and two six-round mags. I felt sorta sorry about winning, but I was not condescending. I shook hands with the other shooter, and that was that.

    The second time I did 10-pins against six, and won, I did not get a chance to shake the guy's hand. I was too busy admiring his nice S&W Performance Center .45 pistol laying there with a magazine still in it as the pin-setters headed downrange. That was when I pressed the mag release and - surprise!

    I don't think that I'll be returning to that place, and I highly recommend that none of my brothers-in arms do not either.

    Stay safe, friends.
  5. HankB

    HankB Well-Known Member

    If this was a "money" shoot and they didn't have written rules printed and distributed in advance regarding "handicapping" . . . then it was, pure and simple, a scam.

    And the guys running things are crooks.
  6. otasan

    otasan Well-Known Member

    Hold on there, Hank

    I don't think that they were crooks - just the year's first crop of sour grapes! ;)
  7. HankB

    HankB Well-Known Member

    Otasan, You were there, I wasn't - so I'm just going by the information in your posts.

    I've shot in a few club level "money matches" and tournaments myself, and invariably the rules have been printed and posted BEFORE the match - things like allowable equipment, procedures, tiebreaking, handicapping, whether its single or double elimination, etc. These have ALWAYS been adhered to - most rigorously! - when there's a cash prize involved.

    From your posts, it sounds like the rules were being changed *on the spot* because the "wrong" person was winning. This is BS, and when cash prizes are involved, even small ones, I think you're being far, FAR too kind to term these shennanigans mere "sour grapes."
  8. otasan

    otasan Well-Known Member

    So True

    The rules WERE changed on the spot because the wrong shooter was winning. And what made me the wrong shooter was the fact that I was hitting five pins with five shots (to my surprise) and no one else was. The match director made the comment "if we don't do something, we may as well just hand you all the money." My first thought was " . . . I'm earning the prize money on the field of competition; they are not just handing it to me . . . "

    I suppose that they could have shot better, which is the fair way of winning.

    Nevertheless, I'll not be going back there for this and more importantly the safety issues.

    I just wanted to warn my New England brothers-in-arms about this shameful event.

    Sour grapes and malicious rule changing.
  9. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Naaaaah. :)

    I still can't believe they did that to you. What a bunch of losers. I'd love to hear them justify their actions here on the board. That would be a real treat.

    Nobody spoke up and said that what they were doing to you was unfair? Not one person? Unreal.

    - Gabe
  10. otasan

    otasan Well-Known Member


    No one offered support, mainly because I did not make a big deal of it. I just went on shooting the pins, and prevailing.

    The four-cartridge limit was placed on me only when I was part of a two-man team shooting at six pins. So my team had 10 shots for the six pins, while our opponents had 12 shots for six pins. Anyway, I got three pins with my four shots, while my partner hit none with six shots. We lost, but it was fun. I had a good time until they told me to not shoot anymore. :mad:
  11. Tacblack

    Tacblack Well-Known Member

    Sounds like you went to one of those "public" shoots where its the same group of guys every match and didn't want any walk in shooters that might actually beat them. So they changed the rules on you.

    I've been to a few uspsa and idpa clubs over the years and ran into one with the same guys and didn't really want any other shooters there. So I didn't go back either. They called it public but they meant private.
  12. Brian D.

    Brian D. Well-Known Member

    Mitch, if it makes you feel any better, it has happened to pretty much everybody with some time (and ability) in any shooting discipline. Think they call it getting "homered", as in being cheated by the home crowd.

    Happened to a friend and I in IPSC long ago. They had side events for rifle and shotgun. After the two of us shot those matches in comparitively spectacular fashion, the rules suddenly changed for the last few competitors, all of whom were the club "favorites".

    Ended up raising enough hell, writing enough letters, telling all the other area shooters we knew, etc., that we got their USPSA charter yanked, though it took a while.

    Maybe you should show up at Lawrence some time and bring copies of your book to sell, being as pesty as possible about it. Bring Ayoob for moral support and to further egg on these yo yos.
  13. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Good. If they want to play little immature games, fine, but not under the banner of the national organization.

    - Gabe
  14. otasan

    otasan Well-Known Member


    So common that it has a name? What do ya know. I hope to never see it again.

    I won't be going back there due to the safety problems that they have; besides, I'm not the kind of guy to pester folks at a shooting match.

    Ayoob moved to FL after the divorce.

    I sure would like to get over to my home state for a pin match one day. I owe Cleveland a visit, also.
  15. otasan

    otasan Well-Known Member

    New Rules @ LR&GC


    Ex post facto, that is.

    There is still no notice that firearms will have to be VERIFIED as unloaded prior to anyone going downrange, and the director has the "discretion" (read "discrimination") to handicap (read "penalize") good shooters.
  16. wanderinwalker

    wanderinwalker Well-Known Member

    otasan, Mitch? I think I've seen you shoot before. CCF&G in Sullivan, Rec Pistol? If you're the person I am thinking of, wow, what a shot! Watching Mitch run any of the courses was amazing.

    Thanks for the warning though. I tend to stay away from Mass with firearms anyway, but I hear they have a nice Highpower range over in Reading, so...

    That's just wrong. And now they are trying to cover their bases. So sad and sorrowful.

    Take care all.
  17. gezzer

    gezzer Well-Known Member

    typical MA
  18. P95Carry

    P95Carry Moderator Emeritus

    ''Disgust'' is what comes to my mind reading about that - or no - maybe ''contempt'' has a place too.

    Strange too - because most places I have been, when one guys shoots real good and ''mops up'' - it seems more usual for everyone else to gather round and enjoy watching - I sure did, wishing I could up my own standard.

    Guess it should have been promoted as a ''handicap'' deal. :rolleyes:

  19. jdkelly

    jdkelly Well-Known Member


    That's a pretty wide brush you're using.


  20. otasan

    otasan Well-Known Member

    NOT Typical MA

    Not typical for ANYWHERE but Lawrence Rod & Gun Club.

    I have never seen such club behavior anywhere in my 27 years of competition shooting across the nation.

    I can think of many MA pin matches that do not suffer from xenophobia and conduct safe matches:

    Mass Rifle Assoc.

    Georgetown F&G

    Nenameseck Sportsmen's Club

    Chicopee Sportsmen's Club
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