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Liberal magazine writes an article about the Mustang Range Machinegun Shoot.

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by jlbraun, Dec 17, 2006.

  1. jlbraun

    jlbraun Senior Member

    Dec 29, 2005

    Some bad:

    "It's possible that I just have a sixth sense for finding moder ates, but when it comes to issues of gun control, most of them understand it as a necessary compromise. They acknowledge that some bureaucratic oversight is a good thing. Most seem to support some form of registration and background check, and one range master tells me flat out that he's basically in favor of the Brady Bill, waiting period and all. This is not the lunatic fringe that provides for Michael Moore's mortgage payments. Such people surely do exist somewhere, maybe in lawless central Idaho, but being around these hobbyists makes one wonder just how much effort goes into finding crackpots to play that part."

    Some good:
    "Gun control is a complicated and emotional issue and an informed policy discussion is impossible in this space. But one thing seems certain to me: no one who's never shot a gun should be permitted to create gun-control policy."

    Some great:
    "The old shibboleth that "guns don't kill people, people kill people," with both its commonsensical appeal and its obvious flaws, was not trotted out in my presence, but a revealing variation was: "Guns aren't evil, evil is in your heart." Each time you fire a gun, you face for one moment your own secret capacity for violence:this is why we liberals, with our disbelief in evil, fear them. But each time you fire a gun safely, you have demonstrated that acknowledging such murderousness does not license it. "I think of shooting as an educational practice," that same cracked-goggles range master tells me. "You don't need to be scared of a gun," he continued, "but you need to respect it." It's like armed yoga.

    Draconian gun-control—outright bans, say, instead of registration statutes—laws feel, to these men, like the most insulting kind of paternalism. It's the government telling them: Sorry, boys, but we don't believe you can settle your own seething dark."

    All in all, a pretty good article.
  2. Leanwolf

    Leanwolf Senior Member

    Mar 25, 2006
    JLBRAUN - "... Such people surely do exist somewhere, maybe in lawless central Idaho,.."

    I wonder where that extreme left wing liberal bliss ninny got that one??

    Oh well...............

  3. Zen21Tao

    Zen21Tao Participating Member

    Apr 15, 2004
    Gainesville, Fl
    This entire statement is an example of the creation of a strawman argument. They are trying to define "moderates" as those that believe is just about everything the brady folks want (e.g. registration, waiting periods, Assault Weapons bans, etc.) in order to own guns. Then insist that being a "moderate" is a good middle of the road compromise between unrestricted gun ownership and no gun ownership at all. I am sorry, but to me most "moderates" are those that are willing to tolerate some (what they see as) minor regulation such as background checks and no guns for convicted felons but otherwise believe in the true meaning of the Constitution's 2nd Amendment. You know, the whole "shall not be infringed" part. What this **** sees as "moderate" is a view that it is ok to completely shread the Constitution to obtain safety. I don't know what makes me sicker, this type of reasoning or the sneaky way in which it is presented to the public.
  4. Fly320s

    Fly320s Participating Member

    Dec 24, 2002
    New Hampshire
    So, because I believe that I should be able to own any firearm, in any number, I am part of the lunatic fringe. I wonder if people who believe that they should be able to own any book, without limits, are also the lunatic fringe. How about cars? Or animals?

    Horse hockey. When I'm shooting the only thing I am facing is my own limits of ability. The only secret capacity that I want is the ability to shoot like Rob Leatham.

    If I had a secret capacity for violence that reared it's ugly head every time I went to the range, I'd stop going to the range and go to a psychiatrist instead. Must be the bed-wetting liberals who have thoughts like that. Better lock them up before they hurt someone.

    All in all, it's pure trash.
  5. Joe Demko

    Joe Demko Mentor

    Dec 30, 2002
    Just two minutes from sanity.
    There are days that I swear some of you enjoy seething with anger purely for the sake of doing so.
  6. Wes Janson

    Wes Janson Participating Member

    May 12, 2006
    Considering the circumstances and the enormous predisposition against the sport, I would say that article was an absolute success for the NFA community (or as close to a success as we'll ever, ever see).

    I do have to laugh, though, at whoever's ripping them off by charging $40 per round for 20mm. I'm not sure what prices are running for 20 x 138, but $40 seems pretty excessive.
  7. Chris Rhines

    Chris Rhines Senior Member

    Dec 22, 2002
    Potomac, Maryland - Behind enemy lines!!
    Sigh. What am I supposed to say, Joe? That the article was technically accurate? It was, for the most part. But I'm not going to pretend that it was a good article, or that it was even remotely pro-gun. It was poorly written, bitchy, self-righteous, and overloaded with purple prose and amateur psychobabble.

    Zen21Tao picked up the intent of the article right away.

    Swill. Gun control is a simple, black-or-white issue of property rights. Emotions should not even enter into it.

    Saying that something is a "complicated and emotional issue" is a traditional passive-aggressive way of shutting down the argument of others.

    - Chris
  8. ilcylic

    ilcylic Participating Member

    Sep 14, 2004
    Desert Southwest, USA
    Joe Demko: Rage gets the blood flowing. :neener:
  9. mcosman

    mcosman New Member

    Oct 29, 2005
    Whew, my eyes must be decieving me. When I started into this thread and read the article I thought it read, "Mustang Ranch Machinegun Shooting"

    This is totally not what I expected. :)
  10. Fly320s

    Fly320s Participating Member

    Dec 24, 2002
    New Hampshire

    I'm right there with ya.

    Maybe we are seeing what want to see?:evil:
  11. Guns_and_Labs

    Guns_and_Labs Active Member

    Mar 4, 2004
    Hidden Away in the East Bay, CA
    Even though I'm pretty sure we reach the same conclusion about gun control ("no, thanks, bad idea"), I think it's not quite so black and white, nor that property rights are the only issue. Personal vs. collective rights, safety vs. freedom, constitutional revisionism, mandated situational ethics... there are lots of reasons why gun control is a bad idea.
  12. pete f

    pete f Participating Member

    Dec 7, 2004
    Having just seen an article in one magazine about some of the girls from just outside Reno at a machine gun shoot, I likewise was expecting an article about "sportin' ladies" and guns with the switch. Having seen a recent video online about a fairly dramatically endowed woman firing a thompson whilst only partially clothed, I am in fact a bit let down......:D
  13. gc70

    gc70 Senior Member

    Dec 22, 2004
    North Carolina
    It is amusing to read liberal writers' descriptions of the pleasure they take in an activity that they supposedly abhor.

  14. geekWithA.45

    geekWithA.45 Moderator Emeritus

    Jan 1, 2003
    SouthEast PA
    I view this article as a bridge piece, not as a destination piece for "liberals".

    The fact is that it is articles, exactly like this one, for all its flaws and virtues that will lead the "liberal" rank and file AWAY from automatic, socially reinforced, knee jerk demonization of guns and their owners.

    This is a GOOD thing.

    There is a phenomenon called "thought leadership". Thought leaders who try to jump across too wide a river will leave behind the people they're trying to lead, who will then carry on in their usual way.

    The thought leader who finds the fjord and stands knee deep in the middle of the river saying "see? I'm not drowning!" is the one who's gonna get people across.
  15. Axman

    Axman Active Member

    Sep 5, 2006
    Golden Valley, AZ

    I thought the same thing but I am aware that the Mustang Ranch is no more. The Las Vegas Review Journal had several articles regarding the sale of the buildings and property. BUT, that doesn't mean the new property owners couldn't have turned it into a topless shooting range or some kind of x-rated gun shop.
  16. Rev. DeadCorpse

    Rev. DeadCorpse Member

    Mar 24, 2004
    Interesting. Still, it has a flawed premise. Humans are animals and capable, every one of us, of extreme violence. Some times, this capacity for violence is the only thing that could keep us alive.

    The "evil" of an action is subjective and relies entirely on intent. A more objectivist standpoint would bring up who initiated the force in question and use that for an arbiter of "ethical" use of force.

    Saying ANY force use at all equates to "evil" is utterly thoughtless.
  17. ArfinGreebly

    ArfinGreebly Moderator Emeritus

    Oct 10, 2006
    North Idaho
    Say Only What Can Be Heard

    There is a little line out there in philosophy land: Say only that which can be heard.

    I'm sure I'm not quoting it right. It means, basically, if your audience won't listen to you, what you say is lost. You must say your piece such that your audience will listen.

    We are not his audience. If we were the audience, the article would begin with "I had an awesome day at the machine gun range!"

    His audience is "thoughtful" and "refined" folk, for whom the contemplation of such base and barbaric activity requires a "framework" and a liberal sprinkling of 4-dollar words.

    He has done an admirable job of sticking his journalistic toe in the water and saying to his readers, "waddaya know, it's not caustic after all."

    Bubba goes to a dance. Later he's asked by his (smirking) drinkin' buddies, "how was the dance, Bubba?" To which Bubba replies, "Oh, 'twarn't all that bad. They was shure a lot o' sissies there. Somebody's gotta show 'em how a man does it." Now, truth is, he had the time of his life, and that little heifer he danced with intrudes unbidden into his thoughts. He ain't gonna say it like that to the guys, though.

    Here we have a liberal journalist doing something that's bound to get him ostracised in his normal circle of friends, and he has to frame it so it doesn't look like the most fun he's ever had. "Eckchewleh, twasn't altogethah awful, old chep, yew know, knot beddet tall." (See "Fraffly Well Spoken" for pronunciation guide.)

    It was a sober article. All by itself, that's noteworthy. He characterizes the people he sees as "normal" folk. And finally, he makes the "don't knock it til you've tried it" point, saying that no one should make gun policy who has not been shooting.

    This guy can get traction with a crowd that won't listen to us extremists.

    Eventually some of that crowd may show up here and ask questions.

    Be ready for them.
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2006
  18. MachIVshooter

    MachIVshooter Elder

    Aug 11, 2005
    Elbert County, CO
    I couldn't agree more. While there were a couple technical inaccuracies (and while I do find it hard to believe that any MG owner would claim to support any part of the Brady act), it was generally a good article.

    Most important thing this article does is get the point across to it's liberal readers that we, as a group, are not bloodthirsty ogres with weapons or backwoods inbred hicks with a beer in one hand and a sawed off 'gauge in the other.

    I think this author has done us gunowners a big favor by noticing (and pointing out) that we are honest, respectable, responsible and ethical people who happen to enjoy a hobby that doesn't appeal to everyone. The fact that it was a MG shoot rather than just a local firing range with normal civilian firearms makes it that much better.

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