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Liberty vs. Browning (safe dealers help!)

Discussion in 'Shooting Gear and Storage' started by Trent, Feb 14, 2013.

  1. Teachu2

    Teachu2 Well-Known Member

    Most RSCs will keep MOST residential burglars out. The sheet-metal cabinets won't.

    Better buys more time, that's all. It also costs more and weighs more. Buy what your circumstances indicate.

    Remember, though, even if you buy and install a bank vault - a pro can still get in. Pros generally don't do residential, unless you've got a million dollar collection. I don't know - does a $10k safe attract pros?

    Finally, if a couple of thugs are holding a weapon to a loved one's head - the quality of the safe becomes moot. Layer your protection, and don't lock it all in the safe!
  2. Cesiumsponge

    Cesiumsponge Well-Known Member

    The best door you'll get on a RSC is AMSEC's BF series which come with 1/2" solid plate doors. The body and frame isn't plate steel, but most chuckleheads attack the hinges, the door, the handle, and the lock dial.

    The best boltwork on a RSC is probably "Griffin" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBVUDCicerA

    Even the E-rate construction: 1" solid steel plate body with 1.5" steel door with additional aggregate concrete barrier roughly translates to TL-15, which is a very entry-level burglar rating. Steel becomes a pretty poor barrier once you get into sophsticated thieves with equipment. A safe doesn't attract people if no one knows about it. I don't tell people about what I have. People have a tendency to spread information in a non-malicious way which ends up in malicious hands. You must keep in mind a $10,000 gun safe with a $1 million collection can be defeated with a $5 tool. Any serious burglar only needs to put a knife up to your throat or that of a loved one and that safe is open.

    It's fun to covet all the fancy stuff, but most people will be fine with a RSC and proper layers of security. Know your weaknesses and buff them with layered security!
  3. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

    I saw a "safe" at Tractor Supply tonight when picking up supplies, and walked my wife through how insecure it is.

    See, I've learned something!
  4. JohnBT

    JohnBT Well-Known Member

    "into one seam, and out the other side."

    That's just not right. The door on my grandparents' outhouse fit better than that. A whole lot better. :)


    P.S. - They had indoor plumbing too.
  5. Teachu2

    Teachu2 Well-Known Member

    As does the Denali.
  6. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

    Right now it's looking to be a C series Graffunder for the "irreplacables."

    I'm going to pick up a good quality RSC to catch the less expensive "overflow."
  7. Cesiumsponge

    Cesiumsponge Well-Known Member

    The Denali also has a much thicker body than the AMSEC BF, but uses a drywall fireboard construction. The BF uses a thin inner and outer sheet metal shell with a concrete firefill barrier. The BF is therefore less burglar-resistant on the body but more fire resistant. The price difference is probably also significant between two comparable sizes. Either are suitable, depending on what your needs are.

    Trent, if you're looking to spend Graffunder-kind of money, you can also take a look at refurbished commercial safes and do your own interior which saves a few bucks. Graffunder is a turn-key product but you also pay a price premium for handcrafted workmanship, if that's important to you, such as fit and finish.
  8. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

    Well, basically I split my collection in to two categories. "Irreplacable" and "everything else". :)

    The first category I set a budget of 10K on a safe. The second category I set a budget of 4K on an RSC.

    Without going in to specific details I'd rather avoid talking about, this will allow me the peace of mind I need. Fire protection is critical, living in the country with a volunteer fire department, it's likely the house would be a total loss if the worst ever happened.

    Eventually (1-2 years) I'm adding the vault - 8" of reinforced concrete will keep EVERYTHING cool even if the house burns down around it. That'll also let me secure accessories, ammo, etc. (I'm not fitting 15K rounds of 7.62x54R in a safe.. etc..)
  9. CB900F

    CB900F Well-Known Member


    Plus 1 on not keeping ammo in the safe. That's never a good idea for a couple of reasons. A. You're keeping a relatively low-cost high-bulk items in valuable space. B. If the interior temp of the safe ever reaches the ignition point for even one round of ammo, they all go off. I've seen the results of that, and it's not pretty.

    My advice for ammo is to buy a surplus military steel double-door locker & store it in there. Just get one with a lock on the door.

    Last edited: Feb 21, 2013
  10. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

    Nothing like a 3000+ pound bomb going off in the basement to ruin the day in your neighborhood....

    Don't plan on storing ammo in the safe. The future 12x20 vault, though.. that's a different story. Was planning to keep ALL the gun stuff in there, primers, powder, ammo, etc.

    Not a good idea?
  11. cbpagent72

    cbpagent72 Well-Known Member

    Wow, that is awesome that there was an actual test of residential security containers and the AMSEC BF series came out on top and the Griffin ended up having the best bolt work. When I was looking at safes under $3000.00 a few months ago I wasn't able to find that extensive test, care posting your sources? I skipped the BF series because of the 10 gauge thickness body and everything I read including info from AMSEC STATED that the gypsum type concert did not add any protection and I was interested in the Griffin safe but the made in China label kind of scared me away.

    Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 2
  12. a1abdj

    a1abdj Well-Known Member

    I know. The excitement tends to wear off when you know how little that test actually means.

    It is one of the more "advanced" safes in its price range

    This safe does have pretty darn good boltwork as far as gun safes are concerned. I would like to take the time to poitn out that Griffin is not the manufacturer. The B rates that we sell are the same safe, and we do source them through him on occasion. He is a distributor for the actual manufacturer.

    Sometimes you simply can't Google what you need to know. However, taking a good look around this very forum could have answered many of your questions.

    The fill material in the AMSEC is certainly not "gypsum type", and it certainly does add burglary protection.

    The irony is thick here.
  13. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

    Graffunder C7248 has been decided on.

    I went a bit over my original budget (getting a safe that heavy installed is no small task of logistics, nor is it cheap), but after seeing what level of security RSC's have, and weighing that against the value and rarity of what I want to secure, the additional expense is easily justified. It even passed the muster of She Who Must Be Obeyed.

    Thanks for the loads of good advice and help, everyone! You all DEFINITELY helped steer me in the direction I needed to head!
  14. Teachu2

    Teachu2 Well-Known Member

    That's a big step from Liberty or Browning. Money well spent!
  15. Cesiumsponge

    Cesiumsponge Well-Known Member

  16. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

    Wow. The construction is so simple and rugged... that's impressive.

    It's like the AK-47 of safes.
  17. Teachu2

    Teachu2 Well-Known Member

    "Cept much tighter tolerances...
  18. heeler

    heeler Well-Known Member

    Quite a leap forward from the original selections.
  19. CB900F

    CB900F Well-Known Member


    I hadn't realized that Dave's article was available online these days. However, please be aware that that article is now at least a decade old, but nonetheless Dave McOmie is still regarded as the dean of the safe crackers in this country. It was written when Ulrich Graffunder owned the company, and that's no longer the case. There are some detail differences between the safe in Dave's article and current production. None of which have compromised the protective capabilities of a Graffunder you would buy today.

    The new owner's have moved the production facilities to a better location, bought CNC machinery, and expanded the paint options among other things. The fire protection is up due to multiple intumescent seals set at ninety degrees to each other, and the hinges are a little more consumer friendly. Nothing major has changed and IMHO you're still getting a helluva safe for your dollar spent.

  20. Trent

    Trent Resident Wiseguy

    Yeah. Part of it is I'm a little under-insured, and feeling exposed.

    Part of it is that recent home invasion 2 miles down the road where five bad guys came in specifically targeting guns.

    And got them.

    And didn't get caught.

    Then you get stuff like these two guys, who thought they were gangstas, and went on a spree of armed robberies and home invasions until they finally got caught.


    Or these three, who shot a man while robbing his home.



    Or this man, who shot the two bad guys robbing his home, killing one.


    (I love how they call a bad guy a "shooting victim". They're not a damned victim when they invaded the sanctity of your home.)

    Seeing a trend here????

    Home invasions around here are being done in PACKS.

    THOSE above are just the ones that have been SOLVED. For every one that makes the news with a mugshot, there's 100 more that never see the TV screen or newspaper.

    Think about that. Then think about the odds of survival if you're in a 3-vs-1 or 5-vs-1 gunfight.

    Then think about what happens NEXT. Guns get loaded in to a getaway car as you bleed, and now that group is even more heavily armed and emboldened.

    Anyway... yeah, these are rough times, even out in the boondocks.

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