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Local Gun Shops and Collusion???

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Polishrifleman, Jul 29, 2005.

  1. Polishrifleman

    Polishrifleman Well-Known Member

    I just went into the shop where I buy my supplies and do my transfers. When I asked for an FFL and they said they raised their price for transfer from $20 to $30.

    I know this is their right and don't have a problem with that because I can also choose to go elsewhere. The problem I have is that I was told at the time is that all the local shops got together and came up with this new pricing so I will have to travel a ways to find a new hole or deal with the markup.

    I know that if they are losing business from me buying new firearms and they didn't get a shot at the business they should be upset. But if it is a used firearm or a price they couldn't compete with why the increase?

    I know they have to keep the records around and store the weapons until picked up, but the fact that "they can't stay in business if you buy elsewhere" on something they didn't have for me to purchase in the first place goes beyond my powers of understanding. :banghead:

    I do not want to see any good shop go out of business but I probably won't go back. :(
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2005
  2. K-Romulus

    K-Romulus Well-Known Member

    hmm, price fixing?

    If so, civil antitrust damages are triple the plaintiff's actual economic damages . . . :evil:
  3. DigMe

    DigMe Well-Known Member

    This type of stuff burns me up. Any business can set whatever price they want, that's their right, but this is clearly a case of collusion.

    brad cook
  4. Dave Dembinski

    Dave Dembinski Well-Known Member

    Call the Better Business Bureau
  5. Double Maduro

    Double Maduro Well-Known Member

    Call the other gun shops in the area, ask what their fee is. If it is the same, write down the date and time of the call and the person you spoke to. If it seems there is price fixing, call the consumer protection people in your area.

    But if you call around you will probably find someone who is cheaper. If you do, give them more of your other business and let them know why you are spending your money with them.

    If all else fails, go to a gun show and make friends with dealers there who may not have a store front.

    Good luck,
  6. Bill2k1

    Bill2k1 Well-Known Member

    That happened with indoor range fees locally. I now travel a further distance and pay less then I ever did locally.
  7. jefnvk

    jefnvk Well-Known Member

    Actually, it would be a 50% markup.

    And I stil can't understand how people can say it is ok for a private selelr to sell whatever they want for whatever price, but then say it is bad if a bunch of private sellers get together and decide to sell at a certain price.
  8. Polishrifleman

    Polishrifleman Well-Known Member

    Thanks Jeff, I corrected my math by deleting it. It's easier that way than to try and think about it. :D
  9. taliv

    taliv Moderator

    one is a crime. one isn't.

    if you go to auctionarms.com, you'll find an ffl finder link that will probably show lots of FFLs you can do business with. you might be surprised.
  10. Waitone

    Waitone Well-Known Member

    Ask if the transfer fee is the same if you were to purchase a firearm from time to time. Give them a chance to meet the price you have on the gun you intend to have them transfer.

    We need to support your local gun dealer. They put up with a lot to give you the chance to go elsewhere.
  11. HighVelocity

    HighVelocity Well-Known Member

    What about a private FFL? We've got folks around here that will do transfers for $10 if you're a CHL holder.
    I've even heard of private dealers doing transfers for free to CHL holders.
  12. another okie

    another okie Well-Known Member

    "And I stil can't understand how people can say it is ok for a private selelr to sell whatever they want for whatever price, but then say it is bad if a bunch of private sellers get together and decide to sell at a certain price."

    Actually that's a fair question and shouldn't be dismissed out of hand.

    Antitrust laws say that competitors cannot get together to set prices. That is a restriction on economic freedom. The reason Congress and the states have passed such restrictions is to preserve competition. Competition is good for consumers; it makes businesses work harder, which is good for everyone. When businesses set prices they set them high, and since the prices are set the quality and service soon go down too.
  13. guy sajer

    guy sajer Well-Known Member

    Are we talking about $10 ??

    Did all the gun shops get together ? I doubt it , but none of us know . Accusing them of a felony is pretty serious stuff .

    Retail gun store owners aren't usually hanging together . They are in most cases suspicious of the other and not willing to share info . I know this first hand . It's more likely that a customer related the info and they decided to raise it or the store called around checking prices . Or , they decided that when they figured the time involved with dealing initially with the customer , answering 3 phone calls from the customer checking to see if his gun was in , entering it into their record books and doing the transfer paperwork , wasn't worth $20 for the time involved . All are possibilities . imo
  14. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

    I not only shopped around, but called the expensive guns shops to let them know why my transfers have gone elsewhere.
  15. jefnvk

    jefnvk Well-Known Member

    I guess I am just too strong into the no market restrictions. My theory would be that people would refuse to do business with the offending dealers and eventually, one would break, as he would see an opening in the market.

    But, I suppose that that isn't how it would end up working in real life, as people just don't seem to be into doing that sort of stuff (boycotting local shops to stop the price fixing). I wonder if it is because we have grown accustom to having the gov't say that they can't do it?
  16. c_yeager

    c_yeager Well-Known Member

    Gunbroker (or is it auctionarms?) has a nice list of FFL tranfer providers organized by location. Many of these are private "kitchen table" FFLs who probably havent changed their prices.

    On the other hand, $30 is not an unreasonable amount to charge for a transfer, and really its only another $10.
  17. Really, when you stop and think about it, $20 is probably about right for a transfer fee. I am an FFL without a storefront, and I charge $15 for transfers for the simple fact that most of the other gunshops in my area charge $25 and up. I figure that even at $15 a pop, it takes me all of about 10 minutes to do the actual transfer(paperwork and phone call for NICS check), add another 10 to 15 minutes for phone calls to the customer, etc., and I am still making about $30 an hour for transfer business. Not bad :rolleyes:
  18. Howie93

    Howie93 Member

    I wish that was all it cost

    I know that the extra 10.00 is not that great, but here in California we can not get it done for less than 95.00. Now that really hurts and takes out most other buying options.
    That's what I get for living here. H
  19. Hawkmoon

    Hawkmoon Well-Known Member

    Go back with a mini tape recorder running in your pocket and ask again.

    Each owner is certainly entitled to charge whatever he/she wishes. And if a shop owner accidently finds out (or even intentionally finds out) what the competition is charging and sets his/her prive to match, that is also okay.

    But ... the moment they discuss it and agree to establish a common price, that becomes illegal under anti-trust laws and is prosecutable.
  20. nyresq

    nyresq Well-Known Member

    you think $30 is bad!??!?? HAHAHA.
    I went shopping around here a few weeks ago for a transfer for a used rifle. One store on Long Island here told me they charge $50 unless it is a new firearm, in which case they charge 10% of the purchase price....
    So that means go out and find a nice remmington custom shop rifle for $1300 and pay these asshats $130 to transfer it, even though they didn't have one and couldn't get one...

    This store is a very large "outdoor sports" store ;) and has been around for quite a while.

    I informed the nice man behind the counter that I already had three other gun stores that had told me $40, and all within a 20 minute ride.
    I also told him I would be going elsewhere and he must be using illegal cocaine based stimulants to charge someone $130 for a transfer that takes all of 10 minutes.
    he said "OK" and I haven't been there since. They have a nice selection, but not nice enough to allow myself to be taken to the cleaners for 10 minutes worth of paperwork. :cuss:

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