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Long Range Rifle Shooting Question

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Niklaus, Jul 13, 2010.

  1. Niklaus

    Niklaus Member

    Hello! I love shooting rifles! at long distances! however i would like some input from some more experienced members before i go buy a gun and scope. I already have my gun picked out: Remigton 700 VTR. it is a .308 with a 12" twist rate and 22 inch barrel. What i need help with is finding a good scope that can consistently shoot 6inch groups at about 400-600 yards. the budget im working with is about 500-600 dollars so keep this in mind. ANY INFO AT ALL WOULD BE HIGHLY APPRECIATED! thanks! Niklaus.
  2. taliv

    taliv Moderator

    welcome to THR

    1. rem700 used to be pretty good, but lesser of late. savage seems to have the reputation for sub-MOA out of the box factory rifles these days

    2. 12" twist is pretty varminty.

    3. don't skimp on scope rings

    good luck and post pics when you get it together
  3. General Geoff

    General Geoff Well-Known Member

    This budget is just for the scope and rings, right?
  4. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Well-Known Member

    Do you handload or have a budget for factory match ammunition at $1.50 a pop?

    The 12" twist will handle a 175 gr SMK as used in military M118LR. Probably more but that is a good place to start.
  5. DIM

    DIM Well-Known Member

    I have 308 with 1:12 twist, and on 300 - 500 yards I shoot 155 or 168 HPBT bullets, yesterday I even tried 168 grain A-Max they grouped nicely 1.6" on 300 yards, but with different load on 500 they grouped 5.3" 5 shots. For the scope I use Nikon Buckmaster 6-18X
  6. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

    Consistent 6" groups at 600 yards is going to be a tough row to hoe with most factory ammo.
    Not even considering the rifle, scope, your shooting skill, wind, & range conditions.

    That's 1 MOA at 600 yards you are talking about.

  7. USSR

    USSR Well-Known Member

    I would recommend the Sightron SII Series of scopes which can be purchased for $300 - $400, and then buy a good 20MOA picatinny rail and a set of 1" tactical rings such as TPS offers. I agree with Jim that the 175gr Sierra MatchKing is the bullet to use.

  8. DIM

    DIM Well-Known Member

    Would 175 SMK fly slower 2400fps drop quicker then 155 or 168 SMK? 175 one the other hand does offer better BC specially when windy...
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2010
  9. Hangingrock

    Hangingrock Well-Known Member

    My 40X rifle in 7.62mm-NATO its kind of old like me.
    Related gear
    Related reloading components

    What you’re viewing is some shooting equipment that’s reaching semi- obsolescence along with the operator :). If I told you that I used a Flecker scope at one time you’d wonder what in hell he is mumbling about. You might recognize Unertl I had couple of those also.

    One thing that hasn’t changed is long range starts after 600yds not at 600yds.:what:;)

    Good Luck!
  10. browningguy

    browningguy Well-Known Member

    I use a 6.5-20 Weaver Grtand Slam for anything over 300 yards and it has been a fine scope, but if sticking to 600 yards I would probably be happy with some as low as 14x on the upper end, adjustable objective is a must though. You won't need a 20mm rail for 600 yard shooting, and although the 175 SMK is a good bullet I would probably try the 155 Lapua Scenar and see if the gun likes it.

    For inexpensive scopes the Mueller APV Tactical 4.5-14 AO with 30mm tube is about $150 at Midway USA, Nikon Buckmaster 4.5-14 is around $300, Burris FFII 4.5-14 AO with Ballistic plex reticle is around $300 (I have one on my .300 Winnie and it is a good scope)is also around $300, Weaver Grand Slam 4.5-14 AO is about $350-360 and would be my pick of the bunch.

    Going up to 16x you have the Millet TRS Tactical which gets good reviews but I have not tried one at $330, and the Bushnell 3200 and Burris FFII would also be in your price range.

    At 20x the Weaver Grand Slam 6-20 AO with Varminter, Ballistic Plex or Target Dot (this is the one I use) is about $370 and I really like the glass in this scope for the money. The Leupold VXII's just make it in your range at $500, Bushnell 3200 7-21 AO Mil Dot also makes it under your limit, as does the Burris FFII 6.5-20 with a choice of reticles.

    If I was going to buy another target scope today I would go with the Grand Slam 6-20, I love mine and the glass seems a bit better than the Leupies, Burris , Nikons and Bushnells I also have.
  11. Dave P

    Dave P Well-Known Member

    Hold up there, Mr Rock - you gotta be pulling our leg!

    Everybody knows you need a super scope to shoot mid- or long range --- and you don't have one on your rifle!?!?!?
  12. jamesicus

    jamesicus Well-Known Member

    Hi Hangingrock!

    Here is real obsolescence - nostalgic photo from circa 1959 -- NRA High power rifle National Match Course - posed 200 yd standing to sitting position:


    Winchester model 70 cal 30/06 heavy barrel Match rifle with Redfield Mark 8 International sights. I do believe I am using a Freeland cuff sling here (like the one you depict) -- I usually used the standard M1907 Military sling, but I was shooting some ISU three position at the time and got to really like the cuff sling (I used it on my hunting rifles too). Note the old 10x jacket, GI cartridge belt, campaign hat and bloused paratrooper boots -- kinda spiffy at that!

    BTW, these rifles were used at 600 yds and 1000 yds with metallic sights (accurized M1 Garands also).

    Last edited: Jul 13, 2010
  13. taliv

    taliv Moderator

    yeah? i really don't know, but i somehow thought that "mid-range" was a relatively recent invention
  14. Hangingrock

    Hangingrock Well-Known Member

    You maybe right.;)
  15. Hangingrock

    Hangingrock Well-Known Member

    I just said I like to do it. Didn’t say I was good at it. I can be awful with or with out a scope.:what::)
  16. Hangingrock

    Hangingrock Well-Known Member

    In one of my pictures is (a box of 7.62MM Match XM 118 LOT LC 12010 1963 Match) some one recently gave me a can of it. 1963 brings back memories the following year I would be in the Marine Corps and the year after that Vietnam. So 1959 isn’t all that old.;)
  17. DougW

    DougW Well-Known Member

    I put a Nikon Buckmaster 6X18 Mil Dot on my 700VTR in .308. Scope was around $300 from Brownell's, and it fits my needs out to 500 yards.
  18. Maverick223

    Maverick223 Well-Known Member

    Welcome to THR, Niklaus!

    +1 on this. If you want a Remington 700 (nothing wrong with that), it would be in your best interest to look for an older, used rifle. If you want a new rifle, Savage is turning out a pretty decent rifle, at a comparable price, and has better workmanship/accuracy on average.

    You may want to consider other chamberings as well, but without handloading your options are somewhat limited. If you decide to take up reloading, the .260Rem. is hard to beat for LR, and the 7mm-08Rem. isn't too far behind.

    WRT optics, you want the best you can afford, without which you may be limited more than with a lesser rifle. First choice would be a Vortex Viper PST 2.5-10x44 (or preferably save up about $100.00 for the 4-16x50mm version). This has a matched reticle to adjustments (Mil/Mil or MOA/MOA), target turrets, side focus, good glass, good construction, has repeatable adjustments, and holds zero well. After that the Sightron S-II Big Sky 4-16x42mmAO with Target Knobs or the Nikon Monarch 6-24x50mm with Target Turrets/Side Focus, but both of these lack a few beneficial features IMO.

  19. Patrick R

    Patrick R Well-Known Member

    2 months ago I bought a new Remington 700 SPS Varmint 26" .308.

    Using a Bushnell 4200 6-24-50 scope. Paid $599.00 for scope.

    Changed stock to Bell & Carlson target adjustable.

    So far I'm vary happy with it. Mostly shooting 200 yard club matches so far.

    Fit & finish seems good, Accurate without much load develpment & alot of fun to shoot.
  20. Niklaus

    Niklaus Member

    yes im looking to spend 500-600 dollars on scope and rings

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