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Long Range Silenced

Discussion in 'NFA Firearms and Accessories' started by Mencius, Sep 29, 2010.

  1. Mencius

    Mencius Well-Known Member

    I have been thinking about getting a suppressor for a .22 pistol and I got to thinking about what I would get for a long range silenced rifle. I have seen the .308 suppressed rifles and was wondering what ya'll's opinion on what the quietest 300 yard rifle for taking deer-sized game with off the shelf ammo would be.

    I would think the 308 subsonic ammo would lose alot of effectiveness at 200 to 300 yards. I know trajectory would be a nightmare, but I thought a big 45 caliber would be best. Maybe a single-shot 45/70 or something similar.

    Any thoughts?
  2. pikid89

    pikid89 Well-Known Member

    check your local laws...in florida it is illegal to hunt deer with a silencer of anysort
  3. Rail Driver

    Rail Driver Well-Known Member

    trajectory on a .45-70 at 100+yd ranges is more like the trajectory of a golf ball compared to .308 I would think... It's a much lower powered cartridge. You could look into a .300 whisper through a .30 can.
  4. taliv

    taliv Moderator

    The "whisper" series is probably something to look at for ideas. I avoid proprietary cartridges personally, so I don't own any of their stuff. But the idea is to launch very large projectiles to mitigate the very low velocity cap.

    I think the big bore pistol caliber carbines are pretty cool if you care more about noise than terminal effectiveness. for instance, the 480Ruger with a 400g speer gold dot will still be reasonably effective on game past 100 yrds, but it's no rifle cartridge. They shoot bullets with sucky B.C.s but at least they were designed to mushroom at handgun velocities, unlike the 240g match bullets you'd shoot out of a whisper which would basically poke a hole.

    I'm more concerned about trajectory than noise, so these days, I shoot full-power ammo through my suppressed rifles. It's still pretty quiet; you just get the crack of the bullet really. and when you're outdoors in the wind and with the leaves and stuff... it's just not a big deal
  5. Dnaltrop

    Dnaltrop Well-Known Member

    45-70 is a Rainbow trajectory. Once you get to the point that the bullet starts to slow, it has a much steeper drop at the far end of the shot.

    inside 200 yards or so, not as noticeable, but I'd still prefer the .308's flight path.
  6. Ranb

    Ranb Well-Known Member

    If you insist on going subsonic, then I would use the 338 whisper at a minimum if you intend to go out to 300 yards. Shot placement will be critical, so knowing your range accurately is a must. I read a post on another forum about a hunter using the 338 whisper, if I can find it I will post a link.

    I think subsonic ammo is going to spook the game anyway, so it would be better to go with a standard 308. They can be suppressed enough to protect the ears.

  7. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Staff Member

    Just about any subsonic cartridge will have extreme drop at 200 yards.

    As example, here are two loads from a .300 Fireball, one, a 240gr SMK @ 1100fps (subsonic), and the second is a full-power 125gr load from a 10.5"
    _Bullet_           _BC_ _MV_         0      50     100     150     200     250     300     350     400 | YARDS
    240SMK            0.71* 1100 >   -0.00    0.00    4.55   10.98   18.01   25.38   33.00   40.83   48.84 | drop (moa)
    125 TNT           0.350 2050 >   -0.00   -0.00   -0.38    1.12    3.23    5.72    8.51   11.58   14.95 | drop (moa)
    240SMK            0.71* 1100 >    0.13   -0.02   -0.17   -0.33   -0.49   -0.66   -0.83   -1.01   -1.19 | drop per yard (inches)
    125 TNT           0.350 2050 >    0.08    0.03   -0.02   -0.07   -0.13   -0.20   -0.27   -0.36   -0.45 | drop per yard (inches)
    As you can see, at 300 yards (from a 50 yard zero), there is as much drop with the subsonic load as you'd normally get at around 1000 yards using full power ammunition. The drop rate at 300 yards is 0.8 inches per yard, so if you're off by 10 yards, you miss by 8 inches.

    Unless you really want it to be subsonic quiet, you can always shoot full power ammo through a suppressor and it won't affect the ballistics, yet still yield usually 130-135 dB.

    article | A Brief Introduction to High-Power Rifle Suppressors [​IMG]
  8. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

    What is the need or purpose of using a suppressed rifle to kill a deer 300 yards away??

    All the deer I have shot never heard the gun go off before they were already shot.

  9. DoubleTapDrew

    DoubleTapDrew Well-Known Member

    I'd consider it (and according to the quick interwebz research I did it's not illegal in my state) since I don't wear ear protection while hunting, and don't want my shot to spook game that my hunting buddies may be stalking.
  10. jmorris

    jmorris Well-Known Member

    300 is stretching it a bit but if you cut that in half I can tell you the large boar/heavy bullet combination works well on hogs. “Game animals” are a no go suppressed in my state but I have shot “around” (to the side) deer with suppressed subsonic rifles at cactus and such. They focus on where the bullet impacts rather closely until they don’t see any threat and go back to snacking, at least until they do more looking up than eating, then they leave.
  11. Bubbles

    Bubbles Well-Known Member

    So you can also shoot the one standing next to the one that just fell over for no apparent reason. :D

    FWIW hunting with a suppressor is legal in WV, VA, and PA. I do like the .300 Whisper round for deer, but only out to 150 yards. For land that I hunt that allows for longer-range shots (e.g. farms versus thick brush) I use a Rem 700 in .308 with regular hunting ammo and a suppressor.
  12. Mencius

    Mencius Well-Known Member

    Ok, it looks like getting out past 150 yards or so is pushing it some. If I was going to shorten the range down to the 150 yard mark do you think a big 45 caliber slug or a little more pointy 300/338 whisper type round would be more effective at taking deer at 150 yards?

    If you are leaning toward the bigger bullet do you think one of the major pistol cartridges (480 as suggested earlier) would be better or one of the slower rifle cartridges?
  13. Mencius

    Mencius Well-Known Member

    Zak - That is a great article and thanks for the tables. The article is really good and informative.
  14. gary0529

    gary0529 Member

    I have (and have shot 4 whitetails with) 300 Whisper,aka,300-221, 300 Fireball,

    ranging in CRITICAL-yes I am shouting- with a subsonic 240 Sierra HPBT going 1040 fps it drops like a rock. A quiet painful rock but a rock nonetheless.

    You need to either get the right bullet or place your shot in the brain or spinal cord to get a fast kill otherwise there is a strong likelihood the bullet will "pencil" through the chest and the deer will run off to die.
    I have used Sierra 220 gr. that I have filed off the tip to make a flat point and skived the tip to help it open and yes it did work on a broadside shot but it also went through the upper heart and tore out the aorta and I never found the bullet so I have no idea if it expanded.
    This year I an trying a specialty bullet from Lehigh Bullets that is a solid copper bullet that is "ventilated" for lack of a better term and you drop in a 20 cal bullet in the open cavity in the nose to aid expansion.
    Very accurate round and it is hell on water jugs but I will have to see what it does on game this season-reports are favorable.

    As to your ? about 300 yards-my personal belief is that it is way too long a shot to be made ethically-take another gun-around here, a shot at 300 yards would not spook the rest of the deer in the fields-I have dropped deer out at that range and had the rest of the herd just stand there and continue grazing-yes, we have that many deer - the limit is 6 and you must take at least 3 does to reduce the population.

    The reason I go suppressed is to keep the noise down for the neighbors-not any other reason except that the couple of them do not need to be awakened at the break of dawn.

    Just my opinion, you mileage will vary.

  15. atomchaser

    atomchaser Well-Known Member

    Gary0529 in right on and welcome. Shooting big game with subsonic rounds at extended ranges is probably not ethical for the majority of folks. Another option for bullets is these guys http://www.outlawstatebullets.com/
  16. o Unforgiven o

    o Unforgiven o Well-Known Member

    Why? A full power .308 traveling 3000+ fps the deer would be dead before his buddy next to him heard the shot. :barf: (Deer eating) :uhoh: (Deer like *** Carl) :what: (Deer like OMG!) :cuss: (Deer like curse you great white hunter)


  17. taliv

    taliv Moderator

    welcome to THR gary,

    Unforgiven, because full power 308 shoots very, very flat to 300 yrds. it's basically still point blank range for that cartridge. if you're off in your range estimation by 50 or even 100 yrds, you will probably still hit the vital area.

    zak's table above shows the 240g at subsonic velocities takes 33 MINUTES of elevation to hit at 300 yrds. if your range estimation is off by 50 yrds with this round, you will miss by over 20 inches.
  18. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

    It doesn't matter if the buddy deer hears the shot before they target deer is hit. What is critical is what the buddy deer hears AFTER the target deer is hit. The buddy will hear the shot and likely bolt before you get a chance to sight in on the buddy.

    While not a deer issue here, many folks use silencers to hunt hogs in Texas. The silenced shots won't spook the other hogs (or not as much), hence giving the hunter a better chance of multiple kills.

    Also, silenced shots mean that unseen animals in the immediate area won't be chased away by the report that would occur with an unsilenced gun.
  19. Al Thompson

    Al Thompson Moderator Staff Member

    I worked for USDA-AWS for awhile and we used suppressed .308s. Regular ammo worked just fine. There is (with those suppressors) some noise, but the deer just milled around a bit. The sonic boom is very difficult to link back to a certain spot, so it's really a non-issue.
  20. JDMorris

    JDMorris Well-Known Member

    remington has a 700 aac sps on their sight listed for a bit over 700 i believe, but get a .308

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