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Long Range Sub-sonic

Discussion in 'NFA Firearms and Accessories' started by Mencius, Nov 13, 2012.

  1. Mencius

    Mencius Well-Known Member

    Ok, let's say I was thinking of getting a gun to hunt deer with and an effective range of 200 yards, but wanted it to be as quiet as possible. What caliber/gun would you think would fit the bill?

    I was thinking something like a single shot Ruger 1 in 444 or 45-70 with sub-sonic ammo. I realize it is going to have something like a very steep rainbow trajectory, but when it gets there it should still have a little momentum to it.

  2. TurtlePhish

    TurtlePhish Well-Known Member

    Find something that you can load ridiculously heavy bullets in. .45-70 sounds like a good candidate.

    If I could pick anything, probably .510 Whisper.

    Since this is in NFA, I'm assuming this is suppressed?
  3. Mencius

    Mencius Well-Known Member

    Yeah, I was thinking suppressed and sub-sonic. Going for a deer gun up to 200 yards.

    That 510 whisper sounds like a decent candidate...
  4. Flyincedar

    Flyincedar Well-Known Member

    We have some .308 subsonic that when suppressed, results in zero recoil and almost no sound. My daughter is 11 and really tiny, and often shoots not only her cricket, but the .308 as well. I have only shot them to 150yds, and am really not sure what kind of energy they would have when they get there. Would hate to recommend that and have you end up with a wounded deer on your hands.
  5. CoRoMo

    CoRoMo Well-Known Member

    A gentlemen in my gun club had his suppressed .300BLK out with the heavy subsonic loads and was nailing a little gong over and over at somewhere around 250 yards. Super quiet and surprisingly accurate. The question is whether there is any bullet available that would expand at those ranges/velocities and what energy you're left with. Maybe a cast lead bullet would be in order.
  6. KingTiger

    KingTiger Well-Known Member

  7. jmorris

    jmorris Well-Known Member

    I have never hunted deer with subsonic, not legal here until this year but no real reason anyway as I only get one of them at a time. So I'll likely use the same ammo in my 308 as always just with a can on it sounds pretty much the same as a .22.

    For hogs on the other hand I built a suppressor for a 458 socom. Pretty much the same as factory 45-70 in power range but less case volume issues to deal with when dropping subsonic. Uses magnum pistol powders, so it's pretty much all burned up by the time the bullet exits the barrel.

    I have used a few different bullets but 405grain SP work fine, remember a 405 out of an old trap door is only going 1300 fps+\- so your pretty close to designed speed.

    Not like taking a bullet designed for 2800fps all the way to 1000 fps.

  8. MasterSergeantA

    MasterSergeantA Well-Known Member

    Very nice, jmorris! I've been contemplating doing something similar with my .458. What scope is that?
  9. Ranb

    Ranb Well-Known Member

    1050 fps at the muzzle, bullet loses about 100 fps at 200 yards, 150 fps for the shorter fatter .458

    300 blk (220 RN ) - 440 ft-lbs
    338 whisper (300 RN) - 600 ft-lbs
    458 socom (535 RN) - 990 ft-lbs
    510 whisper (800 RN) - 1600 ft-lbs

    I own the above suppressed rifles but have not hunted with them yet, and might never do so. I am developing a supersonic load for the 338 whisper that matches the muzzle energy of the 30-30 but beats it in accuracy and power at 200 yards.

    While I might use the subsonic 338 on deer; the 458 and 510 on elk/moose out to 200 yards, I would rather use a suppressed 308 with standard ammo than any of the above.

  10. 56hawk

    56hawk Well-Known Member

    If you want to be really cheap, get a Handi Rifle in 500 S&W and shoot 700 grain bullets out of it.
  11. chaser_2332

    chaser_2332 Well-Known Member

    LEHIGH bullets are badass
  12. Swampman

    Swampman Old Fart

    This is just my personal opinion, but I think 200 yards is pushing the limits of ethical hunting when using subsonics on deer.
    It doesn't matter what cartridge or caliber you use, if you have the muzzle velocity at a reliably subsonic level like 1040 fps, it's going to take over 6 tenths of a second to get to 200 yards. A lot can happen in 6/10ths of a second. Proper range estimation is critical as well, a fairly small error can cause a miss, or worse yet, a wounded deer that runs off to die in the woods.

    Another factor, for me at least, is accuracy. I use my own cast bullets when hunting with subsonics and unfortunately they seem to fall into two categories.
    1- Bullets that will group fairly well at 200 yards when pushed at subsonic velocities.
    2- Bullets that have good terminal ballistics at subsonic velocities.

    Unfortunately, I haven't been able to come up with anything that'll do both at the same time.

    Even if I came up with something that worked, I probably wouldn't ever use them on deer at that range, but hogs are another matter entirely...
  13. JustinJ

    JustinJ Well-Known Member

    Agreed. I can understand using a can so as not to disturb neighbors but i'm curious of what legitimate need there is to hunt deer completely undetected.
  14. IdahoSkies

    IdahoSkies Well-Known Member

    To protect your own hearing without carting around ears on your head. Suppression doesn't have to be always about the target. Sometimes the benefit of suppression is for the shooter.
  15. Sam. Colt

    Sam. Colt Member

    Heard a great quote during the Texas TPWD public hearings on the use of suppressors for taking game animals. "If guns were invented today, OSHA would require suppressors."
  16. Swampman

    Swampman Old Fart

    I'm not opposed to hunting deer as quietly as possible, it's just that thousands of deer every year are wounded and lost by hunters using weaponry that is far easier to hit with and far more capable of instantly incapacitating a deer than any subsonic round fired by a weapon that doesn't require wheels or tracks to carry and fire it.
    A man that makes a reasoned decision to hunt with a .357 Magnum revolver has my full support as long as he realizes that he has to set his (and his weapons) limits and stick by them. If practice and testing have shown you that 100 yards is the maximum range at which you can consistently make clean kills, stick by that, even when you see a 175 class buck standing 140 yards away.

    That's what ethics are all about, and the ethics of a hunter have to be strong enough to stand alone, because unlike just about any other sport, in most cases, only the hunter himself will know if he lived up to them or not. (I'm not trying to exclude the ladies here, but if you saw what this looked like when I tried the "he or she" thing, you'd have either laughed or :barf: ).
    Rant OVER.
  17. JustinJ

    JustinJ Well-Known Member

    Generally safe hearing levels can be still be attained by the use of a sound suppressor even with supersonic bullets. There is no need to go subsonic and is ethically very questionable for deer hunting, especially at 200 yards.
  18. Skribs

    Skribs Well-Known Member

    I don't really like loud noises, so I can see a desire to bring the noise levels down below just what is "safe".
  19. wally

    wally Well-Known Member

    Suppressed .308 with "ear muff" earpro are really quiet, and they muffs help keep your ears warm :) If you buy the gated amplifier kind you can be even more sensitive to the sounds of nature than without them.
  20. jmorris

    jmorris Well-Known Member

    What is the ethical difference between a hog and a deer?

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