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Looking for Constructive Criticism

Discussion in 'Competition Shooting' started by nerfsrule2, Aug 18, 2010.

  1. nerfsrule2

    nerfsrule2 Well-Known Member

    I took my model 41 outside for a little practice ..I put up a club target that has a 4 inch outer orange circle and a 2 inch inner orange circle (which I covered with a Shoot and See 2 inch target dot)..The paper measures approx 12x12.. I put the sheet up at 25 yards and was able to put 39 out of 40 shots inside the 4 inch circle..Over a third were inside the 2 inch circle..The shots were taken 2 hand standing no support..Thanks
  2. LeonCarr

    LeonCarr Well-Known Member

    What is there to criticize? Good Shooting.
  3. MrBorland

    MrBorland Moderator

    So, a 4+" group with a M41 at 25yds? Pretty good. Better than most can do. Some constructive criticism though...

    1. Limit your groups to 5 or maybe 10 shots. Not only more standard, your 4" will likely shrink a bit.

    2. Convince yourself that there's no such thing as a "flier". Calling your shots is an important skill to develop, but even a called errant shot counts. If it's truly not representative of your skill level, your average 5-shot group size won't be affected much by it, so record it, but don't sweat it, either.

    3. My benchmark for good, but not excellent shooting under these conditions (25 yards, unsupported, 2 hands) is an honest and consistent 3" 5-shot groups. "Honest and consistent" are important qualifiers, implicitly discussed in #2. Your M41 is a fine pistol. With it's preferred ammo, 3" or better is do-able, IMO.

    4. Consider using an actual NRA 25 yard pistol target, B-16 or B-8.
  4. 1KPerDay

    1KPerDay Well-Known Member

    Constructive criticism: you should post pics of your pistol and the target. :D
  5. nerfsrule2

    nerfsrule2 Well-Known Member

    Thanks ..I will post pics of the pistol and target soon..I have a digital camera on order..This is about the best that I have ever shot at 25 yars ..I have 3 pistols that I like to shoot at this distance a 617, 686 and the m 41.. Both revolvers are 8 3/8 "... One of my problems is that I loose my concentration when shooting ..If I am shooting 5 shot groups at 50' and get a nice group going ..If I am lucky enough to hit the center of a 2 inch Shoot and See Target circle.(The red dot). Once I hit the dot the next shot or two will be way off course,,, Until I refocus at a fresh target... I know it sounds stupid but I concentrate much better when shooting at a clean target..Have you ever heard of anything so silly...:banghead:
  6. MrBorland

    MrBorland Moderator

    You're peeking at the target between shots. Very bad juju.

    Of course. It's one of the reasons I think Shoot-N-Cs should be used sparingly - they tempt the shooter to peek at the target between shots. A very bad habit and a real accuracy killer. One of the reasons I recommended using a B-16 or B-8.

    Just relax, raise the gun, get a good sight picture, and focus on the front sight and maintain that sight picture entirely and continuously for 5 shots. Even during recoil. You'll know (or should know) whether you did well or not even before you look at the target.

    Here's what a bone stock 4"617 can do, shot DA, 15 yards, unsupported:

    And a DAO 686:

    You and your 8 3/8" versions are capable of 3" or better at 25 yards.
  7. nerfsrule2

    nerfsrule2 Well-Known Member

    :D:D Very good shooting... Thanks for the info on peaking..I never thought of it like that ..If you don't know the exact placement of each shot you will be more relaxed,,(Kind of like trying to make 50 free throws in a row...#50 may be a little heavier than #5...
  8. 1SOW

    1SOW Well-Known Member

    I agree with MrBorland.

    Put up something like the standard rimfire 25 yd bullseye target found at Academy or Walmart. Shoot 5 shots using exactly the same sight pic and take your time. Don't look for your hits. In the 'black' they are hard to see anyway.

    Follow through with every shot--you should be able to know where it went, but don't change you sight pic.

    Using two hands, make sure you are in a comfortable stance with a natural point to the X-ring.
  9. MrBorland

    MrBorland Moderator


    Not peeking isn't as easy as it sounds, though: IIRC, that "flier" on the 2nd target was the last of 5 shots. I knew it was shaping up to be a good group. This judgment led to a temptation to peek before my last shot. It can be irresistible. It can also be reflexive, and a quick reflexive peek is as bad as a long gaze if your brain sees (or thinks it sees) holes in the paper.

    Having your shots hit true for a small group only requires that you consistently get a good sight picture and pull the trigger without disturbing it. The target is simply recoding how well you consistently applied these 2 fundamentals, so there's no need to concern yourself with it. Likewise, there's no need to even think about how the group's shaping up during the string. Whether you peek or not, judgment is the real accuracy killer.

    Trust that it's only about the fundamentals. Shooting well is an act of faith.
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2010
  10. HighExpert

    HighExpert Well-Known Member

    You probably know that most M41s are good for a 1" or better group at 25yds. This will give you some room to improve which is good. One suggestion, sight the gun in for a 6 o'clock hold and you will avoid admiring your work until you are done.
  11. lonegunman

    lonegunman Well-Known Member

    So what do you want to know? If you are trying to shoot bullseye, you need to use one hand and you made marksman class. Did it take you an hour to shoot it? If so, you might need a bit more before IPSC becomes your forte.

    Did you do ok for a guy with a gun? yeah sure. If you had fun, even better. Dos you club have any pistol leagues or matches that a guy with a md. 41 can enjoy? If so, go have some fun.

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