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M1 confusion

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Ultrastar, Nov 19, 2004.

  1. Ultrastar

    Ultrastar Well-Known Member

    What is a real M-1? Springfield has a M-1 that looks like our M-14 but then I saw the Auto-Ordnance/Kahr M-1. Neither looks alike and the Springfield is chambered in .308/.30-06 and the Kahr .30 carbine. So which one is a real M-1. :confused:
  2. Third_Rail

    Third_Rail Well-Known Member

    They all are, actually.

    There's an M1 Garand (the 30-06 rifle)
    an M1 Carbine (in .30 Carbine)
    an M1A (actually a civilian version of the M14 in .308)

    Clear as mud! :)
  3. Archangel

    Archangel Well-Known Member

    And then, just to confuse things more, we also have the M1 Abrams chambered in 120mm. :evil:
  4. Ultrastar

    Ultrastar Well-Known Member

    I understand but why have 3 different M-1's with 3 different types of ammo?
  5. ScottsGT

    ScottsGT Well-Known Member

    It's a Military thing. You wouldn't understand. And neither would I ! :D

    I've always asked the same thing to myself, but never came up with an answer. I guess I should have asked someone smarter!
  6. Chipperman

    Chipperman Well-Known Member

    The military had M1 designations for different weapon classes.

    Rifle- M1 (Garand, 30-06)
    Carbine- M1 (The War Baby, .30 carbine)
    Subgun- M1 (Thompson .45 ACP)
    Main Battle Tank- M1 (Abrams, 120mm sometimes)

    They are all M1's, just of different weapon types.
  7. Ultrastar

    Ultrastar Well-Known Member

    Thank you all for the clarification but maybe I should clarify, I'm possibly looking at getting a civilian M-1 (.30 carbine) that's why I brought up Springfield and Kahr differences. So if I look for parts, mags or accessories, I know I'm getting the right stuff. I guess I should ask or look for M-1 carbine stuff. That's like this guy bought a new pistol and he asked for 357 ammo, got home and wondered why .357 mag ammo wouldn't fit in his 357sig magazine. Neither my co-worker at the time or he were too knowledgable about the difference. Thanks :)
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2004
  8. VG

    VG Well-Known Member

    Another gotcha. The M1 Abrams had a Rheinmetall 105mm rifled cannon. The M1A1 was upgunned to the 120 smoothbore, and there are now M1A2 and M1A2 SEP models as well, that I know of.

    Lets see - 30.06 fires a 150 gr bullet at around 2,750 fps. The M1An fires a 70,500 gr [roughly 10.5 lb] depleted uranium arrow at close to 6,000 fps. And a ballistic computer takes lead, cross wind, laser range, air density and other variables into consideration in aiming. These apply to the coax .30 cal in the turret, making the M1 tank the world's finest long range night deer hunting tool....

    Now you know why rifles are called "small arms."
  9. joegerardi

    joegerardi Well-Known Member

    Ultrastar wrote:
    Okay. If you're looking for a rifle that take .30 Carbine ammo, then that's the M1 Carbine. The Springfield M1 Garand will NOT, it's chambered for the .30-06 round.

    Everything you would look for would have the word "Carbine" associated with it.

    That said, and were it me, I would forego the Kahr version and look for an original M1 Carbine. (Most just call it the "Carbine" for short.) They are so much cooler that the Kahr's - which are fine rifles - because they are from WWII. They're also not much more then the Kahr. You can find them around 550-600, and have the full wood foreguard, and a much better "cool factor" because they ARE the real deal.

  10. Ultrastar

    Ultrastar Well-Known Member

    I'll have to look into that, thanks.
  11. secamp32

    secamp32 Well-Known Member

    How much recoil

    does the M1 Abrams have compared to an M1 carbine?
  12. blfuller

    blfuller Well-Known Member

    Don't forget the M1A1 carbine. It was a M1 CARBINE with a folding stock.
  13. C. H. Luke

    C. H. Luke Well-Known Member

    A copy of my post re Carbines from another BB:

    "But how do I tell an original WWII from one made after that?"

    One thing to look for is the usualy, poorly cared for, re-import guns like "Blue Sky", etc. Like any other gun that comes back into the Country they have to be marked. On Carbines it's almost always stamped under the barrel close to the muzzle. Generally speaking import marked guns are selling for about $100.00 less than the equivelent.
    Decent ones are around $400 to $500. If the one you mention is in good shape with a clean bore $300 is an exc. price!

    These little carbines a Ton of fun to shoot!

    Good info here:


    Telling them apart:


    Good Carbine BB:

  14. Chipperman

    Chipperman Well-Known Member

    "Like any other gun that comes back into the Country they have to be marked. On Carbines it's almost always stamped under the barrel close to the muzzle."

    Sometimes they are marked on the receiver. Don't look just at the barrel.
  15. Ultrastar

    Ultrastar Well-Known Member

    Thanks for all the good info, it got me looking in the right direction. :D
  16. George S.

    George S. Well-Known Member

    A real M1 Garand is labeled on the back of the receiver as "US Rifle, Cal .30 followed by a manufacturer's name and a serial number. Some may look sort of ragged and some ahve been rebuilt. The part that makes them "real" means some of them may have helped defend our country in battle.

    Springfield Armory makes a version of the M1 using a new receiver, barrel and stock, but the rest of the compoinents are USGI parts that have been carefully inspected. SA gives you a choice of .30-06 or .308 Winchester.

    SA also offers an "M1A" which is their clone of the military M14. These are semi-auto only (no provision for the full-auto selectore switch) and come in a variety of configurations. They are chambered in 7.62x51 NATO which is a .308 round.

    Milirary issue M1 rifles can be rebarreled in .308 and that is a fairly popular conversion as the cost of .308 ammo is less than .30-06 and still is an accurate cartridge.

    You can get a "real" M1 Garand from the Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) for around $550 for a good quality rifle to $300 for rilfes that have been returned from the Greek government. Go to www.odcmp.com and go to "Rifle Sales" for information on how to buy one.
  17. Pat_Rogers

    Pat_Rogers Member in memoriam

    The best defense against confusion is education.
    Much of what is on the errornet is non factual or semi true, smattered with a bunch of "i think" or "i heard".

    There is a US Rifle, Cal. .30 M1 (the term "Garand" is a nickmane, and not in any way official.

    There is also a US Carbine, Cal. .30, M1.
    The rifle fires a .30 round that can be identified metricallly as 7.62x63mm (the term 30-06 is not military nomenclature.
    The Carbine fires a .30 round that can now be identified as a 7.62x33mm. Same bore diameter, different length.

    US Rifles ran from M1 to US Rifle, Cal 7.62mm M14, M14A1 and M14E2 (the respective USMC and Army designators for the Squad Automatic Rifle).
    The US Rifle, Cal. 5.56mm M16; M16A1; M16A2; M16A3; and M16A4 are the rifles that went from limited standard to the now current standard.

    Besides the US Carbine Cal. .30 M1, there was also the M1A1 (the term "paratrooper" is a duffers term and not official), M2 (a select fire carbine) and M3 (for use with an IR optic).

    The US Carbine Cal 5.56mm M4 and M4A1 are the current issue.

    While many companies use military type terminology to hype their wares, there is no such animal as M4A2 or M4A3- except in the minds of advertising wienies.

    Find youself a copy of Ezell's books- "Small Arms of The World- all out of print, but well worth it.

    Hope this helps.
  18. C. H. Luke

    C. H. Luke Well-Known Member

    "What is a real M-1?"

    General George S. Patton, Jr. proclaimed it:

    "The greatest single battle implement ever devised by man."

    As far as the moniker "Garand" goes, it' is one of distinct legend & long standing homage to Honor the designer/inventor of the rifle, John C. Garand.

    It is not slang to refer to an M1 as a Garand nor is it to refer to a Thompson as a Thompson, etc. The same goes for Tommy Franks.

    "Douglas MacArthur applauded the M1. George S. Patton, Jr. proclaimed it, "the greatest single battle implement ever devised by man." Even the normally passive Dwight D. Eisenhower publicly praised it. Renowned small-arms expert S.L.A. Marshall, in his highly detailed and critical evaluation of the performance of U.S. Infantry weapons during the Korean War, noted the phenomenal love of the American infantryman for the weapon, who, without reservation, candidly stated to him on over a hundred occasions that he could not think of replacing it with anything else."
  19. oneshooter

    oneshooter Well-Known Member

    It is NOT recommended that the 120mm M1 be fired from the sholder,or the hip,or one handed!!

    Livin in TEXAS
  20. buttrap

    buttrap Well-Known Member

    Well I sure would like to know where SA is finding there GI parts...last I new it ws all made in Koreia parts.

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