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Man survives 21 gunshot wounds: Placement, placement, placement!

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by Yoda, Aug 9, 2010.

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  1. Yoda

    Yoda Well-Known Member

    Harlem shootout gunman who lived through 21 shots probably broke record

    The gunman who survived at least 21 bullet wounds in a Harlem shootout with cops probably broke a record, a forensic expert said Sunday.

    "I would say more than 20 gunshot wounds is a record," said Dr. Vincent DiMaio, 69, a forensic pathologist and author of "Gunshot Wounds: Practical Aspects of Firearms, Ballistics, and Forensic Techniques."

    "Of course, the real issue is where you get shot," he added. "One bullet can kill you, but believe it or not, a body can survive a lot of bullet wounds."

    Angel Alvarez, 23, shot Luis Soto of the Bronx before falling in a hail of gunfire in a wild shootout with NYPD officers early Sunday, police said.

    Alvarez's sister, Kimberley Creer, 29, said doctors confirmed they had removed at least 21 slugs from his body.

    "That's ridiculous," she said. "In the arms, legs, abdomen, jaw. ... He's doing all right. He's talking."

    Alvarez's lawyer, John Carney, put the number of shots at 23, but said his client was "awake and responding."

    "He had chest and abdomen shots," Carney said. "It's a miracle. They missed the heart and major arteries."

    DiMaio predicted that Alvarez would survive since the bullets missed vital organs and didn't cause excessive bleeding. The risk of infection remained the gunman's biggest hurdle.

    "Listen, if you make it to thehospital and you can talk, 99% of the time, you'll make it," DiMaio said. "He'll survive."

    DiMaio said the most gunshot wounds he'd ever examined in one person was 17, in aTexas man a decade ago. "Theguy was complaining about thepain," he said. "I told him, 'You're lucky to be alive.'"

    In New York City, Joseph Guzman was struck at least 11 times in the 2006 police shooting that killed Sean Bell. Guzman received $3 million in a settlement with the city.

    Here's the links (corrected):


    'nuf said....

    - - - Yoda
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2010
  2. God wanted this guy to survive 21 gunshot wounds. It happens. Get over it.;)
  3. alohachris

    alohachris Well-Known Member

    gawd wanted him shot 21+ times because he loves him? Riiiiiiiiiiight... makes complete sense.
  4. JoeMal

    JoeMal Well-Known Member

    That's amazing

    God forbid I ask what caliber?
  5. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Well-Known Member

    Good grief! Even Cole Younger only had 11.

    According to Mass, they are using 9x19 Speer Gold dot


    They'd be better served with magnum wheelguns.
  6. JHansenAK47

    JHansenAK47 Well-Known Member

    I wonder if he is going to be partially crippled. A lot of potential for nerve, tendon and joint damage.
  7. Enachos

    Enachos Well-Known Member

    ^^^ What he said.

    I imagine there's gonna be some kind of damage to parts of the body. He may have survived but I doubt he'll be able to function properly.

    But what do I know... I've never been shot... thankfully!
  8. wow6599

    wow6599 Well-Known Member

    I can hear it now........."should of used a 40" or "wouldn't of lived if it was a 45".
  9. JoeMal

    JoeMal Well-Known Member

    That's why I debated even bringing it up lol
  10. CoastieShep

    CoastieShep Well-Known Member

    What a waste of life. Too bad he didn't die. Would've saved the tax payers a lot of money if he'd died.
    Never would've taken than many rounds if they'd been using .40s. Sorry, couldn't help myself.:neener:
  11. Ragnar Danneskjold

    Ragnar Danneskjold Well-Known Member

    Don't be an ass.

    Anyways, I do wonder what caliber it was. Any to me, more important that what caliber, I think it goes to show that having enough rounds on your and in your weapon is really key. Nothing quite like running out of rounds on your massive "caliber that start's with a 4" gun only to find that the BG is still kicking.
  12. Sgt_R

    Sgt_R Well-Known Member

    But did it stop the threat?
  13. Chevyguy85

    Chevyguy85 Active Member

    As far as i know of Orlando PD carries glocks now, I know the Orange County Sheriff's office has gone to glocks as well. Source is out of date. If they were missing COM that much with 9mm then going to magnum wheel guns wouldn't help them very much, in fact would probably make shot placement even worse
  14. kis2

    kis2 Well-Known Member

    the link took me to a medal of honor recipeint, so I didn't look at the full story to see any kind of timeline but...

    no time for a rifle I assume?
  15. Yoda

    Yoda Well-Known Member

    OOPS... here's the correct links

    Link corrected on original post... and some more added...

    - - - Yoda
  16. Blakenzy

    Blakenzy Well-Known Member

    In other words pistol caliber is of little significance if you get poor hits.

    Round count is of little significance if you get poor hits.

    Good hits are hard to come by on a moving, shooting target.

    BTW, 21-23 hits...how many complete misses? Total shots fired... 50+
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2010
  17. Yoda

    Yoda Well-Known Member

    Here's another version

    Yes, one apparently can be shot 21 times and live to tell the tale--not that it's the sort of achievement that anyone is going to run out to emulate. Over the weekend, a Harlem man survived what some physicians are calling a record number of bullet wounds and is now recovering at a New York City hospital.

    Early Sunday morning, a fight broke out at a party in Harlem that spilled into the street. According to the police officers who arrived at the scene, Angel Alvarez was seen fatally shooting Luis Soto. When Alvarez turned his weapon on the officers, a fierce firefight broke out. More than 50 bullets were fired, almost all of them by the police. At least 21 of those bullets pierced through Alvarez's body.

    Luckily for Alvarez--whose extensive criminal record includes at least eight prior arrests--none of the bullets hit his brain, heart, or major arteries. His family members say that even though his arms, legs and torso were riddled with ammunition, Alvarez is "doing all right," is talking and it's believed he'll survive. A forensics expert told the New York Daily News' Simone Weichselbaum and Virginia Breen that Alvarez is likely the new holder of a somewhat dubious record.

    "I would say more than 20 gunshot wounds is a record," Dr. Vincent DiMaio, a forensic pathologist who specializes in gunshot wounds, told the paper. "Of course, the real issue is where you get shot. One bullet can kill you, but believe it or not, a body can survive a lot of bullet wounds."

    Meanwhile, some locals who witnessed the gunfight that left six people, including two cops, wounded are disputing the NYPD's version of events, saying that the officers -- some of them plain-clothes cops--never identified themselves as law enforcement personnel.

    "Never once did you hear, 'Freeze,'" Shariff Spencer told the New York Times' Trymaine Lee and Colin Moynihan. "Never once did you hear, 'Stop.' Never once did you hear, 'N.Y.P.D.'"

    Through a spokesman, the NYPD has insisted that the use of force was justified, saying that Alvarez fired upon the officers. It's been reported that the incident began with Alvarez and Soto arguing over a woman.

    Here's the link:
  18. cajun47

    cajun47 member

    sometimes i feel like replacing my ccw glock 19 with two .357 mag revolvers.
  19. wulfhart

    wulfhart Well-Known Member

    Last edited: Aug 9, 2010
  20. rondog

    rondog Well-Known Member

    I wonder how many pass-throughs there were. Sounds like panic shooting to me, they need to slow down and aim a little.
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