Mini 14 vs. AK question

[RaferJanders]

Well, the Mini is not an AK, the Mini is a great little ranch rifle and that is about it. The AK is something you can depend on, The mags are bullet proof, meaning that they do not need that much care, The Ak will keep shooting long after the Mini has jammed, I would keep the mini and sell or trade the wife for the AK the Ak is alot more dependble than a full time night women!

 

[benEzra]

RP88 I have two of the new 580 series minis and I get between 2.5-4" groups at 100 yards with open sights. Will your AK group that good?

There was a reveiw of the CZ made model 58 AK style rifle in Guns magazine last month and the writer reported 8" groups at 100 yards. I am pretty sure that was his best groups also.

The main reason I sold my mini (188 series Ranch Rifle) was that it was less accurate than my AK. My mini's best ever group was 5.5" at 100 yards, from a rest and rear bag, and my AK will do better than that.

The new 580-series mini's are reportedly more consistently accurate than older mini's, though.

 

[SimpleIsGood229]

The Ak will keep shooting long after the Mini has jammed

Do you have any factual evidence to reinforce this claim?

 

[proplinker]

Keep your mini it shoots better than the AK's. If you can't kill it with ten shots, chances are you can't kill it at all.

 

[Ignition Override]

Armed Bear summarizes much of what I've read over the months about Mini 14 aftermarket mags, at "Perfectunion".

They have a permanent mag forum because so many aftermarket types for the 14 or 30 are unreliable or junk. Ironically, the polymer Promag 30-rounder in my really old Mini 14 has never misfed, despite having a loose fit...but, I've only loaded between 6 and 20 rounds, to avoid using ammo too quickly.
Only use Wolf ammo and no ftfs in the 14.

Would the OP consider a Russian SKS? They are the best version (although my Norinco has been perfect), milled versus stamped, slightly pricier, but much less than an AK.

Saw two at the last show here, listed for about $425 each, and looked excellent. Very tempting when bewitched.
With any typical SKS, you don't need to remember to pack the mags, just have loaded stripper clips or ammo. A German friend who is a careful, methodical planner (like all of them), somehow forgot to bring his AR's mag to plink at an 'Insurgent Pumpkin' and was pretty embarrassed.
Imagine intelligent people who have tried to prepare for a future emergency, i.e. natural disaster or 'uncivil disturbance' (s. c. LA), thinking about a wife and/or kids or pets... Serious problems seldom happen according to the 'manual'.
The real SKS always has its magazine. Conversions are not always reliable, although one type of Chinese SKS was originally designed to accept AK mags.

 

[Gamera]

I'm glad I found this thread, as I've also been thinking about swapping my 190 (I think) series mini for a converted Saiga. Now don't get me wrong, I love my mini (even though the accuracy suuuuucks), but there's just something about an AK...

At the next gun show I'll see if anyone wants to buy my mini for a decent price. If so, I'll probably sell it and put the money towards a Saiga.
But hey, worst case scenario, we have semi-auto rifles with normal capacity magazines

Oh and +1 to the ProMag 20 rounders, I have two and they work just as well as the factory ones.

 

[CTW]

I am not knocking the AK it is a great rugged gun and I will never get rid of mine, but I will not pay todays prices for steel case nonreloadable ammo. I have vowed to not buy any more non reloadable ammo. I have a pretty good stock of steel cased ammo for the AK and SKS's and I am not shooting it anymore. I personaly would keep your Mini and get some Mags and take up reloading if you dont already.

 

[Zach S]

Well, the Mini is not an AK, the Mini is a great little ranch rifle and that is about it.

And the only thing that makes the mini a better ranch rifle than the AK is the fact its American, and the AK is commie.

If I had a ranch, and therefore the need for a ranch rifle, I'd have a hard time decinding between the flat shooting .223 or the 7.62 that punches a bigger hole, but if I saw a cowboy using an AK variant in a movie I don't think I'd like it too much...

 

[benEzra]

Keep your mini it shoots better than the AK's.

Mine didn't (188-series Ranch Rifle). That's why I sold it.

If you can't kill it with ten shots, chances are you can't kill it at all.

Factory capacities for the Ruger are 5 and 20. There are plenty of aftermarket 30's (and 10's, if you want them), but reliability is hit or miss.

 

[ArmedBear]

And the only thing that makes the mini a better ranch rifle than the AK is the fact its American, and the AK is commie.

No, the Mini is a great-handling little carbine for pointed/aimed fire; the AK feels clumsy by comparison (except for full-auto, covering fire, etc. where it definitely excels). The Mini carries and racks more easily, since it's a lot sleeker and doesn't stick out in all directions. It's objectively a better "ranch rifle", and it would still be if it were made in Kazakhstan.

Now the Israelis have done some good stuff with the AK platform, to make it feel like a much more modern rifle. You can improve the AK's handling.

And maybe you don't have a ranch.

But it's got nothing to do with "commie" versus American.

 

[AK103K]

the Mini is a great-handling little carbine for pointed/aimed fire; the AK feels clumsy by comparison

This is still a matter of opinion and what your used to. While you find it isnt, I find the AK to be more of what you think the Mini is, and across a more broad spectrum.

The Mini carries and racks more easily, since it's a lot sleeker and doesn't stick out in all directions.

Again, thats your opinion. I find the AK easier to carry and use (the basic sling set up is better) and charging the gun is no different.

As far as "poking out in all directions", there is little difference if the Mini is wearing a large capacity mag. The AK's pistol grip gives more options in the way its carried and shouldered than the Mini, and allows for a more compact weapon in that sense.

I really dont know how you can improve the AK's handling. Contrary to what many will tell you, the stock isnt to short, and the controls are not difficult to use. You can easily operate all aspects of the gun without ever removing your hand from the grip, and in some cases, you can get it in action quicker from comfortable carry positions, where your hand isnt on the grip, that you would not be able to do with most others due to the placement of their supposedly more ergonomic controls. Also, most of the more current AK's have their slings set up properly for carrying the gun in a more realistic fashion, and the slings are simple and dont tend to hang up on things. The Russian slings in particular, are very well made, quickly adjustable, and long enough to be used in most configurations the three point slings are supposed to excel at.

There is one thing that will bring both the Mini and the AK into the 21 century with the other more modernized platforms, and that is the Ultimak hand guard rail. It, along with a quality, low mounted red dot, will allow them both to keep up with the so called "better" guns. Other than that addition, the AK really needs nothing else, and even that really isnt necessary, but it is a major improvement.

The one thing that would improve the Minis usefulness would be the factory AC556F folding stock. It would give you the same sling set up and carry options as the AK, and also give you a more compact package, like the AK folders. Of course, like the wire stock AK folders (the AK100 series full stock folders aside) and most others folders, you may not find them as comfortable to shoot a lot with.

 

[benEzra]

the Mini is a great-handling little carbine for pointed/aimed fire

So is the AK.

The Mini carries and racks more easily, since it's a lot sleeker and doesn't stick out in all directions.

Cycling the action is exactly the same (charging handle is in the same place), unless by "rack" you mean "sticking it in a gun rack." Magazine catches are in the same place. The safety is easier to access on the mini.

The mini is sleeker with the standard stock, but the lack of a pistol grip makes using a sul ready position problematic, and high ready is less than ideal for defensive use. I did refit my mini with a Choate E2 stock (and eventually a Butler Creek folder) to improve the ergonomics in that regard.

Mini magazines are very delicate compared to AK magazines.

 

[KBintheSLC]

I have a Mini 14 .223 stainless with a wooden stock. I love the rifle. However, with all the frenzy over AKs; I have been wondering if I might need to get one before they are either go up in price more or go away all together.

Sounds like you may be on the verge of succumbing to the mania.

Don't do it.

I love my AK, but I would never pay the current prices for one. The Mini 14 is a fine rifle. I would use the money and buy plenty of mags and ammo for it.

Originally Posted by RaferJanders
The Ak will keep shooting long after the Mini has jammed

This is just plain false. The AK and the Mini are both piston operated and highly reliable. Now the AR on the other hand is another story.

 

[godsdog]

What about Mini-30, Comments?

 

[Art Eatman]

My Mini-14s always put the first shot exactly where I expected and wanted, which is about all you can ask of a hunting rifle. That's bad for coyotes and jackrabbits.

They easily held minute-of-torso or better--usually much better--until I got bored and quit whanging away at tin cans and rocks, which is about all you can ask for when self-defense is the issue.

I've not messed with the Mini-30.

 

[WardenWolf]

Early Mini-30's used an out-of-spec barrel that was designed for .308 caliber rounds. Current production ones are to the proper .311 spec. They should be just as accurate as the Mini-14. Have fun cleaning them if you shoot surplus ammo, though. Corrosive ammo is not fun to clean out of a gas-powered gun.

 

[SimpleIsGood229]

What about Mini-30, Comments?

It has a lack of magazines options, for one. As Mike mentioned, some are spec'd for .308'' diameter projectiles (as opposed to the proper .311").

I'm not certain on this, but I seem to recall the Mini 30 owner's manual stating that steel cased ammo should not be used. I could be totally wrong, however. Can any Mini 30 owners verify this?

 

[cdet69]

i own a ruger ranch rifle and have found it to be reliable. their customer service is o.k. but could be better. i hear people like the ak because the abundance of spare parts but if a ban took place you can kiss them good bye too. the real reason for owning a mini is because it shoots 5.56 nato. if the shtf 7.62x39 ammo will become scarce but 5.56 might still be had. plus you can by 223 anywhere not can be said about 7.62x39.

 

[WardenWolf]

I'm not certain on this, but I seem to recall the Mini 30 owner's manual stating that steel cased ammo should not be used.

While I cannot speak for the manual, I will say this: the only problems people have with steel cases in all other guns occur due to carbon or lacquer buildup. Steel cases do not expand to seal the chamber when fired, and thus carbon fouls the chamber until it has built up to the point where the case forms a seal. Additionally, most steel cases are coated in lacquer to prevent rust. Lacquer melts at firing temperatures, and also deposits itself on the chamber. This results in a sticky buildup in the chamber that can actually freeze a gun shut and cause extraction problems, or even damage extractors on some guns. This more serious problem has been remedied in Wolf ammunition. They now use a polymer coating instead of lacquer, which does not have that severe buildup in the chamber. Polymer-coated steel cases only pose a problem if brass is fired without cleaning after shooting steel. The fouling causes the brass cases to stick tight once they expand.

 

[Travis Bickle]

I'm not certain on this, but I seem to recall the Mini 30 owner's manual stating that steel cased ammo should not be used. I could be totally wrong, however. Can any Mini 30 owners verify this?

You can read both manuals here:

http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/PS-InstructionManuals-RI.html

I doesn't say anything about steel cased ammo per se, but it does say to only use factory loaded sporting 7.62 x 39mm cartridges manufactured in accordance with U.S. industry practice. It could be that steel cases are not in accordance with U.S. industry practice, although I don't know for sure.

 

[SimpleIsGood229]

Thanks, Travis. Interestingly, the manual says to "Use only U.S. commercially manufactured ammunition." Keep in mind that steel-cased ammo isn't (to my knowledge, anyway) made Stateside. To me, it is almost as if they're saying not to use steel-cased ammo, without explicitly saying it.

 

[WardenWolf]

They're mostly saying not to use corrosive ammo.

 

[Weedy]

I'm thinking the exact opposite!

I'm trying to sell my WASR-10 right now to finance a 580 series mini 14. I know, I know...the hype, the mania and all that BUT...I cant find 7.62 ammo around here. Most of the places I've always purchased it are all out, and most of these places have thousands, literally THOUSANDS of rounds of .223. A rifle is no good if you can't find ammo. Also, 7.62 is mostly imported and that may pose a problem in the future, whereas .223 would at least be available in the event of a ban on imported ammo. I pretty decided I want to take my chances with the Mini. Hopefully I won't regret it someday.

 

[SimpleIsGood229]

Perhaps you and OP could negotiate a swap.

 

[Defense Minister]

Keep the Mini-14. They are a great carbine that you can bet your life on. I agree with the other posters who suggest focusing on packin' away some extra ammo and good factory mags, or the Promags that were mentioned earlier. I have four of the Promag 30 rounders, and haven't had a problem with any of them.