Mitchell's Mausers

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Not real interested if you believe me or not. I do not lie and that is enough for me. I need not prove anything. Folks who choose to disbelieve those who, by the witness of their own eyes, who entered into long discussions for more than a decade now about the practices of MM, may wish to erect more hoops through which to jump. If you choose to ignore the legions of folks who have seen the fraudulence, fine by me. But the sheer number of complaints make up a mountain that one would think would be too hard to ignore.

http://www.odcmp.org/new_forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=11256

http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?t=39665

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=100531

http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/mausers/28273-mitchellsmausers-com.html

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-178196.html

http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=21982

http://parallaxscurioandrelicfirear...oval-of-finish-on-Russian-capture-bolts-.html

http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/mausers/22483-mitchell-s-mausers.html

http://www.jouster.com/cgi-bin/mauser/index.pl?noframes;read=8274



Ash
 
Remember Ash, you brought up the people must believe you to be a liar if they don't agree with you stuff. You bring up the lie issue again in this most recent post. I don't think anyone is saying you are lying. No one is getting personal with you, unless I missed it, but you seem to be taking it personally. The whole jump through hoops thing is far out. I don't think anyone is asking anything like that. Instead they are asking for some hard factual evidence for that about which others make claims, evidence that would contradict the current ads. That is a typical thing to request when disagreements about facts occur. Again nothing personal.

Regardless of the certainty you have about your memory, it is rather peculiar that no one has yet to show one of these ads! I too remember other ads they have had. I remember them being more like them saying they were made by the Germans, but also rememebr when read closely, they never said that. Now I could well have a faulty memory, and your could be correct, but please excuse me if I am going to believe for a omemnt that your memory is infallable because you may think it so. You could well be right, but I am a skeptic who prefers to see evidence of a thing. Sorry if that offends you, it was certainly not meant to, nor do I think were comments made by others asking for some sort of evidence other than say so.

As for anyone out there with a scanner and a real ad by Mitchell's mausers, please scan it in to your PC, and post a copy here. I would love to see it if only becaise it would or could settle this thing once and for all definitively.

All the best,
Glenn B
 
Yeah, me and many, many, many others on many, many, many other forums observing the exact same thing. That I find myself not alone is fine by me.

Ash
 



They definitely seem to indicate that these are true 98s. Sorry for the crappy pic, I pulled it off google, my scanner is down.

If these are M48s and they are advertising them as K98s, that is at least a little dishonest. They use lines like "Hitler won't be making any more", which is true enough, but Hitler never made 48s in the first place.

If the gun is not "original", as is claimed at the top of the ad, then I would say that is definitely a lie. But true K98 snipers tend to go for more than that, in my experience.
 
What convinced me was a couple years ago when they where selling 300 buck red capture P-38s for 1000 bucks. Came in nice wood boxes but still not a 600 buck box.
 
I'm not so sure MM was buying "beat up rifles" and spit shining them, (whether they inflated prices or not is not for me to decide). My $150.00 rifle came wrapped in heavy arsenal paper that was inside a plastic sleeve. It was loaded with cosmoline, but as the cosmo came off, what appeared was a brand spanking new rifle. The bore was absolutely pristine - it looked like it just came off the line - no kidding. If MM's were/are buying the same rifles, it would not take much elbow grease at all to bring them to a LN standard.
 
No need to spectulate - Go to the MM website and see the History of the M48. MM still posts the claim that these are new rifles. No joke.

The ads - OK this is what the ads claimed.

Nazi's occupied Serbia and tooled the factory to build K98's with slave Serbian labor. When the Nazi's were driven out, the Serbs kept building the rifles to use against the Nazi's. - Later after the war, Yugoslavia using the same factories, built the same rifle with some modifications using good strong steal and fine wood under the model M48. It was not a K98, it was an M48.

They were trying to sell you on the fact that the guns were built on German Tooling and were strong rifles. They never ever claimed these rifles were German or that they were built during WWII.

I'm not calling anyone a liar. I am asking for proof other than internet posts. I keep hearing that "I know a guy who" but I have yet to meet a guy myself.

Now, if in fact the M48's were refurbished then MM was frudulent. It does not matter if you like the gun or not. It does not matter if your happy with your purchase or not (both of which I am by the way).

If anyone has any proof that MM has pulled a scam, please post the evidence. I'm sure a class action suite will follow.


Thanks and shoot safe, I do.
Lovesbeer99
 
"They never ever claimed these rifles were German or that they were built during WWII."

In the MM Owner's manual (the current one) they state that these rifles were made near the end of WWII (their words, not mine).

Ash
 
Nazi's occupied Serbia and tooled the factory to build K98's with slave Serbian labor
Click to expand...

No K98s were ever made in Yugoslavia. Yugoslavia originally got the tooling from Belgium before the war.


When the Nazi's were driven out, the Serbs kept building the rifles to use against the Nazi's. - Later after the war, Yugoslavia using the same factories, built the same rifle with some modifications using good strong steal and fine wood under the model M48. It was not a K98, it was an M48.
Click to expand...

The only mauser rifles they might have made during the war were their own version of the FN-24, the M48 which wasn't made until at least 5 years after the war ended was a slightly modified M24.

They were trying to sell you on the fact that the guns were built on German Tooling and were strong rifles.
Click to expand...

Even so, they were wrong.

MM might have changed their ads, but only after someone probably 'corrected' their made up history.
 
CrackedButt - I just double checked and the MM website still says that the M48 was built on German Tooling and is in Military New condition with almost perfect bluing. Where did you see the new adds? Al the recent adds in my gun mags are trying to sell the K98 with the German marks, not the M48.

Also - where did you get the info regarding the Belgian tooling and that no K98's were made in Serbia? I'd like to look all of this up.

Is there anyway to verify on the gun that it was refinished and not Military New?

Finally - if I overpaid for my gun, say the 299.00 advertised price, how much is it really worth?

Thank you very much for your info, I appreciate it.
 
Oh wait a minute, maybe Alamo was being sarcastic when he wrote what he did, and did not mean to imply that Mitchell's Mauser had said you should only trust their ammo. Or maybe he was saying that MM ammo is the only ammo you should trust because he thinks it is the cat's meow.
Click to expand...

I was being sarcastic. MM Premium Ammunition is just like everything else MM sells - overpriced.


When they say, "you no longer need to rely on military surplus...", they may as well be saying, "you no longer need to rely on inexpensive, affordable ammunition that can be bought in large quantities and works just fine, now you can buy our overpriced commerical ammo by the 20 round box."
 
When they say, "you no longer need to rely on military surplus...", they may as well be saying, "you no longer need to rely on inexpensive, affordable ammunition that can be bought in large quantities and works just fine, now you can buy our overpriced commerical ammo by the 20 round box."
Click to expand...

But does the cheap suplus ammo come with an official suitable-for-framing certificate of authenticity? :scrutiny:

Didn't think so....
 
But does the cheap surplus ammo come with an official suitable-for-framing certificate of authenticity?

Didn't think so....
Click to expand...

You got me there. But you can always store the ammo in one the serial numbered walnut presentation cases with replica Blue Max medal used on their refinished, non-matching Lugers:

http://mauser.org/autopistols/hist_p-08 luger/p08trio.jpg


My apologies to the MM fans. I can't help myself. They're just so easy to make fun of. Must...restrain...myself....
 
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Eh. MM guns are very nicely done bubba guns.
I like bubba guns a lot. Unfortunately, MM is selling these bubba guns at decidedly un-bubba prices.
 
Try to buy one with a C&R license and let us know how that goes.
That should tell you what you need to know.

If you modify the weapon too much it no longer qualifies for a C&R, or if the age is wrong. If they are "authentic" and "collector grade" why would they not qualify for C&R sales? WWII Mausers should be older than 50 years yes?
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+1 that should tell you everything you need to know right there. They can BS you, but they aren't taking the chance on BS'ing the ATF technical brach and the federal time to anyone who contributed...

The older Mitchell's adds are rediculas, they clearly tout a rifle with a polished silver bolt as a "WWII Mod 98" they are highly modified $99 M1948 Yugoslav mausers strait from the depereciated cellars under the Zastava factory that were 'looted' durring the numberous times of instability throughout the country, coupled with some good old slightly disguised stateside fraud. I actually own one of the early Mitchell's M48's, i didnt know it wasnt a K98 till a guy at a gun show made me look stupid by showing me that the parts would not even interchange.
 
I don't see any reason why Mitchell's couldn't sell it's rifles as C&R's. They probably just don't like to. So far as I know, you can restore a C&R and it still remains a C&R so long as the parts remain the same and have not been modified.
 
Everything I've seen says that as long as the rifle remains in it's original military configuration, it's still a C&R. Now Mitchell's does specialize in overpriced, Frankenshined Mausers, but except for perhaps their sniper variants, they still are in their original military configurations.
 
My Experience with Mitchell's Mausers

I bought one of their "Collector Grade" K-98 rifles about 6 months ago with my C&R license. I see absolutely nothing wrong with this gun. It shoots fine, the numbers match and it does not appear to have been refinished other than the normal clean-up I would give any milsurp gun.

My dad has a WWII K98 bring back that my grandfather brought back from Germany while he was there in WWII. The only difference in the two rifles is the codes are a little different and mine is a little cleaner than his.

I am thoroughly satisfied with the rifle I bought and the amount I paid for it. Anybody that tells you a genuine K-98 Mauser from WWII with all matching numbers is only worth $200 is living in the past.

I have shown my K-98 to several vets and expert collectors and they all say I got a damn good, authentic rifle for what I paid.

Now as far as the bayonet I bought from MM that is a different story. They sent me what was supposed to be the WWII bayonet for the K-98 with matching numbers on the scabbard and bayonet. They raped me for $350.00 for that. When I got the bayonet, I knew right away it was not a K-98 bayonet and it was not even a WWII bayonet.

I took it to a few vets I know and a couple of expert bayonet collectors. Everyone of them told me it was a Belgian Bayonet most likely made around 1924 and worth about $50.00.:cuss:

I called MM and asked them what they were trying to pull with the bayonet and told them that I had it appraised and what the results of the appraisal were. At first they tried to hand me a bunch of baloney about it being one of the rare K-98 bayonets with no markings on it. I flat out told the guy he was full of it.

He told me to send the bayonet back and they would refund my money including shipping one way. I returned the bayonet and got my money back except for the $10 it cost me to mail it back to them.

So, long story short, I see nothing wrong with their K-98s. I have had mine checked by several people that were there during WWII and know a K-98 when they see one. I am happy with it. I was not happy with the bayonet or the way they tried to screw me out of $350 for it. I also agree with most of the bad opinions on this thread about the M-48s and the P-08 and P-38 pistols.

I got a nice M-48 from Gunbroker for $150 with the bayonet, scabbard and sling. :neener:

You can find a better deal on a P-08 or P-38 anyday and most anywhere than the ones MM has. I have seen one of their P-38s. It was a joke. It was basically a $200 gun in an $800 box.

My buddy returned it as well after haggling with them on the phone a few times.

My 2 cents.

Joe
 
look at the german sniper rifle in the add posted above. both of the rifles in that add have bolts that are in the white, german built rifles have blued bolts. those are not real WWII german sniper rifles
 
I bought one of their "Collector Grade" K-98 rifles about 6 months ago with my C&R license. I see absolutely nothing wrong with this gun. It shoots fine, the numbers match and it does not appear to have been refinished other than the normal clean-up I would give any milsurp gun.
Click to expand...

I have shown my K-98 to several vets and expert collectors and they all say I got a damn good, authentic rifle for what I paid.
Click to expand...

I've read extensively of the MM 98Ks on the Gunboards 98K forum. The experts there have nothing but the greatest of contempt for MM. They consider them to be charlatans of the first order, "carnival barkers" as one of them puts it. I guess you must have talked to different experts.


From the descriptions I've seen / read of MM 98Ks, they are nothing more the common Russian captures that have been cleaned up by MM. Some still have the RC "X" on the receiver. Some folks have reported that the "matching" numbers are nothing more than the Russian electropencil numbers that match or numbers stamped by MM to make them "match".

My dad has a WWII K98 bring back that my grandfather brought back from Germany while he was there in WWII. The only difference in the two rifles is the codes are a little different and mine is a little cleaner than his.
Click to expand...

Mitchells strips all the finish off of the bolts so they're white. That's not the way they were when they were made/used by the Germans. Is all of the finish completely stripped off of the bolt of your dad's 98K? It shouldn't be except maybe wear around the edges.
 
Perhaps I'm just not trusting enough but something seems off when a brand new member makes his first and only post to tell us how great a very disliked company is and what a great value their museum quality gun is :D
 
Never said it was a great value

The bolt on my K-98 is not white and I never claimed it was a great value. I said I liked it and thought I got a good deal. It means very little to me whether you trust me or not.

The way some people sound on here, MM could sell you a pound of solid gold for $1.00 and you'd complain about it. I never said they were honest or a great company either. I just stated my opinion.

Most of the experts I know have been collecting, shooting and gunsmithing for the better part of 60 to 70 years or longer and many were in Germany during WWII.

I didn't just fall off the turnip truck myself. I've had this gun at many gunshows and people have offered me up to $700 for it. I turned them all down.

:rolleyes:
 
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