Most Accurate .22 ammo

[Maverick223]

But that isn't true either Maverick. Wind will affect a slower moving bullet more.

It is...variable cross-wind is an outside force. Doc's point was that a 1/2MOA rifle at 10yds is a 1/2MOA rifle at 1760yds...as long as there is no outside forces. Changing winds included, but if the wind remains constant all of the bullets should group just as they did at the closer range. Gravity has no effect on the grouping unless it changes, in which case I am less concerned about my grouping. The only unknowns that could affect the grouping of a particular arm is the accuracy of the rifle, sighting system, and load components, as well as outside forces...of which the only ones that come to mind is trans-sonic region, obstacles, and variable winds. All supersonic projectiles (that I know of) exit the barrel at supersonic speeds, with the exception of the gyro-jet. Accuracy may (and certainly will) be different, but the precision (in other words the grouping) will be the same as the closer range when measured in angular departure (e.g. mils or MOA).

 

[dagger dog]

lobo,

Eley, in my Savage bull barrel bolt gun,CCI Green Tag in my 6" Woodsman and MKII 6 7/8 Ruger, but a real sleeper is Agulia.The one that shoots best in my Ruger 10 22 match chambered barrel is the Super Xtra, and guess what it's Eley primed ?

The bench rest crowd segerates their .22 rimfire by measuring the rim of the brass into batches .

I would bet that the brass thickness in the area where the primer lies , is an important area that controls ignition of the powder charge, by keeping this area in tighter tolerance Eley makes their ammo more repatable, and tighter grouping.

 

[JohnBT]

"Doc's point was that a 1/2MOA rifle at 10yds is a 1/2MOA rifle at 1760yds"

Not at all true in my experience.

You can do a google search on something like "bullets going to sleep" for starters. Here's a thread where shooters get counterintuitive groups at different ranges.

www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2902684

The thing is, bullets tend to fly in a spiral and not in a straight line and the oscillations are larger at certain points in the flight path than others.

John

 

[JohnBT]

Oh, and from one of the links in the linked thread.

"Read Dr. F.W. Mann's Book, `The Bullet's Flight from Powder to Target.' It
has excellent examples of this. Thin paper sheets placed every few feet
between muzzle and 100 yards show the exact spiral path of the bullet.
It even shows how the angle of the bullet relative to its down-range path
is determined. Great reading. Even though it was first printed in 1907.
Physics hasn't changed much since then."

 

[MythBuster]

Anyone with any experience with .22 ammo like Remington Thunderbolt knows it has a HUGE variation in powder charges. You don't need a chronograph to know this. All you have to do is listen to it.

Anyone who has shot it at 100 yards knows you will get vertical stringing because of the variation in powder charges.

This does not show up at 25 yards.
Case closed.

 

[JImbothefiveth]

Hey, I heard that eley ruined barrels, however, this was in an article from the 80s. Is it still true?

For the thread's question, the most accurate I've shot is either CCI standard veolicty or federal target. I use them for competition. For plinking federal bulk's okay, remington thunderbolts are okay in one of my guns, and they jammed a lot in the others. Maybe thunderbolt quality has improved?

 

[CZguy]

Anyone who has shot it at 100 yards knows you will get vertical stringing because of the variation in powder charges.

I usually get vertical stringing from a hot barrel.

 

[Maverick223]

Hey, I heard that eley ruined barrels, however, this was in an article from the 80s. Is it still true?

I don't doubt it...you shoot Eley...then, knowing that you have the best ammo available, realize that your bbl must be bad and decide to replace it...then the scope, reciever, et cetera...until a suitable rifleman is found to correct the problem. I seriously doubt that Eley hurts a bbl, and furthermore doubt that it ever did (any more than any other manufacturer), but have no evidence to support this assumption.

 

[JImbothefiveth]

The article I read was from the NRA written by a bunch of accomplished smallbore shooters, so that's probably reliable. Did eley change the composition at all in the last 20 years?

 

[Uncle Mike]

....best 22lr ammo, in the world....Remington Thunderbolt! Everybody knows this...

 

[Maverick223]

The article I read was from the NRA written by a bunch of accomplished smallbore shooters, so that's probably reliable. Did eley change the composition at all in the last 20 years?

Perhaps there is more to it than I give credit...as to the formula I have no idea, what exactly was said? Was the lead too hard?

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Well, there is a small caveat to what I said (which is essentially right), and that is that yes, some bullets do spiral in a circle, that much is true, but I am operating with the understanding that only high-speed bullets (centerfires) have enough "juice" on them to cause them to spiral - not rimfires. I could be wrong on that (anyone know if .22s spiral? I didn't think so).

However, even if they're spiraling, they're still going have added to that spiral, the "error vector" that's pushing them left right up or down due to inconsistent ammo (or rifle or shooter), which is still simply magnified at distance (plus made possibly worse by wind or going subsonic or some external force - rain maybe). You're just not ever gonna find a world-champion shooter that would have lost had they just went to 50 instead of 25 yards, or vice versa (that the 5th or 10th place guy would have won if the distance would just have been further) - I'm not buying that.

....best 22lr ammo, in the world....Remington Thunderbolt! Everybody knows this...

Never miss an opportunity to dog Remington, do ya, UM?

There most certainly is a way to make ammo change directions in flight. It's called gravity.

Walter, you are missing the point. Gravity simply ADDs a vector - it cannot overcome or change or undo the "error vector". Everything I said is obviously (or so I thought it obvious) being said ceteris paribus, all other things being equal. Gravity is going to act equally on all bullets fired at the same target so it's irrelevant - the error vectors are what ARE relevant. Sure wind can affect it, but that's assumed to be ceteris paribus as well - it too (along with all other miscellaneous forces) are irrelevant to the "error vector" created by imperfect ammo, rifle, and/or shooter. They must be accounted for separately. There's no way that wind can be counted on to overcome or undo bad ammo or bad rifle or bad shooter. It might occasionally bring back a bullet the opposite direction of the "error vector" just enough to hit the bullseye out of pure luck, but it certainly won't happen consistently.

You are exactly right, it's about vector physics - which supports exactly what I said - thank you.

 

[lobo9er]

To ranger guy, I saw that after I posted. Your post was the only one that had a claim that far out. Nice groups! I am going to give eley a try. Price decide however if it will be something I will shoot on a regular basis

To Dr. Tad win, I appreciate your ethusiasm, but I think you over thought the question a touch.

 

[Uncle Mike]

Never miss an opportunity to dog Remington, do ya, UM?

...at least I'm consistent...hehehe

I meant no degradation in that statement... I am not brand loyal, so if a particular...whatever... is poopy or not, in my opinion of course, I simply state...my opinion.

Would it have smelt better had I said...Winchester Polecat ammo stinks... oops, I meant to say Wildcat ammo.

For the record...Remington is a great company.....I own maaaany Remington this or that... did I say Remington is a great company...I meant to say....

Anyway back to the previously scheduled post....

 

[browningguy]

I think that everyone should remember that the original poster asked what the "most accurate" .22 ammo was. He didn't ask what the cheapest ammo that gave marginally acceptable groups was. I shoot minimags in one of my hunting .22's and it's great for that purpose. But it is not, and never will be, the most accurate. If you just want to go blast away with no rhyme or reason then shoot Federal bulk, or Remington Thunderbolts, whatever floats your boat. But please, don't try to convince people it's the same as shooting good quality match ammo.

The correct answer is almost always Eley, although RWS Target shoots slightly better in one of my rifles, and some of the other match loads are nearly as good.

 

[JohnBT]

Here's a good 4-page article on Eley. They invented a dry powder to load into cases that only became primer when they wet it. It allowed variance to be held to a fraction of what had previously been possible.

They go so far as to track the weather each day they do a powder run and adjust the load. There's a reason they win almost everything and their ammo costs a fortune. JT

www.shootingtimes.com/ammunition/eley_101405/index2.html

"I'm not allowed to tell you how they did everything they did, but even in summary it's one of the most impressive achievements I've seen in my 30 years in this business. Eley engineers identified 50 primary variables--basics like bullet mass, case internal volume, and propellant charge mass.



Then they determined 200 secondary variables--things like the ambient humidity in the assembly facility, the metallurgy of the cases, human competence. Finally, they identified 700 tertiary variables--subtle things the TenEx project manager told me turned out to be the ultimate keys to getting things really up to "the TenEx level." For example: weather conditions in the country where the propellant powder is manufactured on the day that particular lot of powder was mixed. (Yes, Eley actually adjusts the TenEx loading profile for each powder lot based on this and other equally subtle considerations. The same is true of the other end of the process; manufacturing "lots" of TenEx consist of one day's run from a single loading machine because the weather is different each day.)



With nearly 1000 variables charted, the engineers addressed bullet and case design. Bullet design was analyzed with sophisticated computer modelling for in-flight characteristics. They discovered that a flatnose projectile was distinctly better for subsonic velocities out to 50 meters."

 

[Koos Custodiet]

What TimRB said. My CZ rifle shoots 1" 5 shots at 100m... with S&B. With anything else, be it Remington subsonic or CCI Green Tags or Eley or Sobol, it's worse.

Actually, Sobol (Russian stuff) shoots 7 out of 10 into a damn nice group, with three flyers. Consistently. OK, sometimes 4 flyers

Edit : and my Anschutz Exemplar does bloody well on the local stuff. Each gun is different.

 

[JohnBT]

"yes, some bullets do spiral in a circle, that much is true, but I am operating with the understanding that only high-speed bullets (centerfires) have enough "juice" on them to cause them to spiral - not rimfires. I could be wrong on that (anyone know if .22s spiral? I didn't think so). "

Yes, all bullets do it to some degree. A bullet would have to be perfectly balanced not to precess. Precession is what you see when you spin a top. It might sit up straight for a second, but it quickly begins circling the axis. The Earth does it too, although a lot slower. Even if you started with a perfect bullet, the trip through the bore would change the shape and the balance as the lands and grooves reshaped the bullet. You end up with the nose of the bullet circling the axis and you get a spiral.

Here's a page with precession mentioned at the bottom of the first column. I'll see what else I can find later.

http://books.google.com/books?id=Nd...=onepage&q=rimfire bullets precession&f=false

 

[JohnBT]

Even air gunners talk about spiraling.

www.pyramydair.com/blog/2009/07/do-pellets-spiral.html

One post:

"To Matt:

I could agree that bore does not impart precession only if it is a perfect bore. If at any point, it alters the surface or shape of the projectile, (non-uniformly), then it will contribute to vector forces altering the trajectory.
I do agree that precession can be consistent. The guys "down the hall" from me can calculate precession and estimate POI fairly well.
If the irregularity causing the spiraling is consistent, then the spiraling will be consistent, and a rifle could deliver 2-inch groups, even with an 8-inch spiral.
I swear my Infinity does this - the spiral I see appears much larger than the groups I can get, (a non-scientific observation, of course). It does mean, however, that sighting in at various distances means much more than compensating for drop - you also have to adjust for where in the spiral you are for each distance.

Shooting in a cross-wind is a whole different animal. In addition to the "side force" of the wind moving the pellet, even a perfectly stable projectile, if spinning, will succumb to magnus effect in a cross-wind. This can cause the bullet to rise, (ie, drop slower), sink, or veer abritrarily off course. Wind is not consistent, golfers hate it.

If someone could remind me which pellet was recomended for me to try instead of the EunJins, it would be much appreciated...

Best regards,
Jane Hansen"

 

[Uncle Mike]

400 Highly paid Mercedes driving engineers loading .22lr ammo vs. 6 drunk monkeys sweeping powder off of the floor and into cases....thaaaaat's is why Eley makes the best 22 ammo in most peoples opinion...lol

It would seem that Eley puts the utmost effort into their product!

I like the Lapua Midas also...

My daughter and I used Eley Match EPS to shoot division silhouette in 99/2000 out of CZ 452's.... she placed!

 

[Justin]

If you just want to go blast away with no rhyme or reason then shoot Federal bulk, or Remington Thunderbolts, whatever floats your boat. But please, don't try to convince people it's the same as shooting good quality match ammo.

Agreed. I've found that the Federal Bulk Packs are great for plinking, and even accurate/reliable enough for shooting steel challenge. But for games where precision wins it, Eley is miles ahead. Back when I shot Bullseye Pistol, I had a hoard of Eley that I'd only break out and shoot once before a big match, and then at the match itself. The difference in accuracy between CCI standard velocity and Eley was quite noticeable.

 

[UnTainted]

I wouldn't consider it the most accurate in my other .22s, but in my browning buckmark, the velocitors 40 grain thingies love to punch tight groups and nail rodents hard.

 

[matai]

I like Wolf Match

 

[JohnBT]

Me too, but I like the older Wolf Match Target, back before they changed the type of powder they use in it and back when it was only $15 a brick, and then $18 a brick. One of these days I am going to shoot it all up and then I will be sad and much, much poorer.

The old Wolf Match Extra is good too. I only bought a couple of cases of that.

John

 

[Maverick223]

Has anyone tried the new FMJ .22lr rounds, I saw a link for some a while back but could never find a distributer/retailer?