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Most advanced handgun and bio-engineering

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by winfried, Nov 8, 2012.

  1. winfried

    winfried Well-Known Member

    I have come across some good advice and information from a knowledgeable person/designer on the following. Should I buy a pistol designed by this knowledgeable person? Have you bought such a pistol?

    Thanks in advance


    That pistols were complicated to use.

    'To Load a pistol the slide must be pulled back and pushed forward.'

    'When a 'clip is empty', the slide must be pulled back, a new clip be inserted, then the slide released and moved forward.'

    'These actions must be carried out against heavy spring forces and only in one sequence and can be entrusted to experienced hands.'

    'The shooter cannot often tell whether the pistol is on or off safety, especially after a pause in shooting.'

    'A trigger-type automatic (I am puzzled what that is, I though all pistols have a trigger) has a trigger that is cocked by the slide when a cartridge is chambered. In order to carry the loaded pistol, safely, the hammer must be uncocked.'

    'Subsequent shooting requires manually cocking of the hammer by means of the trigger.'

    'This procedure requires that quite some force be exerted .necessitating a long trigger stroke. The pistol is off safety after the first shot, and subsequent shots only require limited force on and a limited stroke of the trigger, so that the danger of an unintentional shot is great.'

    'For safety against jarring and dropping a particular latch for the firing pin is provided that is released on operation of the trigger before the hammer strikes the firing pin.'

    'And then there are pistols known, that have a separate safety to be operated with three fingers gripping the pistol grip, but it is difficult to operate the safety independently of the trigger finger so that mistakes in handling happen.
    In addition , with such a pistol whenever it is solidly gripped it is off safety so that unintentional shots can be fired.'

    'Another problem with known automatic pistols is that removal of the barrel for servicing the gun s fairly difficult, necessitating tools. In view of the need to maintain such complicated mechanism carefully, such difficulty is extremely disadvantageous.'

    'Yet another disadvantage of the known automatic pistols is that after the last shot in a clip the slide returns forward on an empty chamber . To chamber a new cartridge it is necessary to pull back the slide , insert a new clip , then advance the slide. In a situation where a pistol is used , such extra handling is very disadvantageous.'
  2. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf member

    Does this pistol have a name or is it a one-off?
  3. Owen

    Owen Moderator Emeritus

    This does not sound like a modern handgun at all.
  4. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf member

    Where the heck does "bio-engineering" come into play or have anything to do with anything?

    Maybe start over and rephrase the question, if indeed it was a question. Try to not be so verbose and boil it down to bones or something.
  5. Sam1911

    Sam1911 Moderator

    This sounds like a very long-winded way of explaining the way quite a few semi-automatic handguns work, but not the more modern designs.

    Let's break this down:

    Well, that's generally how almost every semi-automatic firearm works. Except that none require you to push the slide forward again. The recoil spring will do that for you. You simply have to retract the slide slightly and let it go, or just press the slide stop/release lever down.

    There are a few styles of automatic handgun that do not lock open after the last shot is fired, but not many. Most will lock the slide back when the magazine is empty.

    Hmmm...not sure what to say to that. You need to understand how the pistol works to make it function, but 5 minutes of practice is enough to get the point across.

    Not knowing anything about this gun, I don't even know if it has a safety or a decocking lever or not. Once you understand how a gun works it is very easy to quickly tell if it is on-safe or off-safe. If you've just fired it and didn't apply the safety, it's still off-safe.

    This is just poor use of the words. He's describing what we call a "Double/Single-Action" automatic. And he's saying that once the gun is charged (a round is placed in the chamber) the hammer must be lowered to make the gun safe to carry. There is (usually) no separate safety to apply. Most guns of that type have a "decocking" lever that will safely drop the hammer without firing the gun. Then the first shot you take has a long, heavy pull because the trigger is cocking the hammer as you pull, not just releasing an already cocked hammer.

    Now this sounds more like what we'd call a "Double-Action-Only" handgun, where the hammer does not stay cocked when the slide cycles, but is lowered back onto a safety notch after every shot. Every shot you take requires a long, heavy trigger pull to cock the hammer and let it fall. A very few guns are made this way. Most are small pocket automatics designed to be very, very simple to use, needing no safety and no decocking lever. Just pull the trigger and the gun goes bang -- like a double-action revolver.

    And now he's back to describing a "Double Action/Single Action" pistol where the trigger pull on the first shot is long and heavy, but the next shots are all short and light pulls, until the shooter decocks the gun to make it "safe" again.

    Almost every modern handgun has some form of internal safety mechanism that keeps it from firing if dropped or jarred.

    There is only one gun I can think of that operates this way -- the H&K P7. They are VERY nice firearms, and not at all unsafe. But they are also heavy, expensive, and rare these days. They are a bit of an evolutionary dead end in handgun development.

    Almost no common service type handguns require any tools to remove the barrel for cleaning. Almost NONE. So that's just untrue.

    We already covered this one. Only a very few (usually small and cheap) handguns do not lock back the slide when the magazine is empty. Almost every automatic handgun locks open after the last shot.

    Seems like whomever wrote this doesn't know a whole lot about firearms.
  6. Skribs

    Skribs Well-Known Member

    Sam kinda touched on this, but it's also called a "magazine", not a "clip", just to add to the level of questionability in this person's firearm knowledge. I'm curious to as to:

    1) What does "bio-engineering" have to do?
    2) What is the actual pistol?
    3) How do you explain the inconsistensies between the DA/SA and DAO mechanisms that are described at different points?
    4) Are there pictures of this?

    That said, just because someone doesn't use the right nomenclature doesn't mean they're wrong. Einstein had to go back to school to learn the correct syntax for writing his theories. Even so, this sounds like some weird DA/SA - DAO hybrid with a P7 safety.
  7. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Well-Known Member

    I do not consider the quotes to indicate much knowledge at all.
    Perhaps the author is promoting sale of his own design and has to make up straw man arguments against the competition.
    But since you are keeping his identity and the brand of weapon secret, we cannot discuss that any further.

    And furthermore, the usage indicates that it was either written by somebody not very fluent in English or awkwardly translated from some other language.
  8. fatcat4620

    fatcat4620 Well-Known Member

    Sounds like someone from 1895 describing early automatics.
  9. Owen

    Owen Moderator Emeritus

    I think we also must consider that the OP is not a native english speaker, so let's take it easy about criticising his language. I'm sure he's more fluent in our language than we are in his...
  10. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

    The pistol that first came to mind when I read bio-engineering was the Vektor CP-1

  11. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Well-Known Member

    Ah, got it. German Southwest Africa, now known as Namibia.
    Might have been translated from German, wiki says it is the more common language although English is official.
    I note that winifred's introduction is correct English.

    But lacking anything but the designer's claims, I still can't pronounce on the gun's desirability.
  12. Skribs

    Skribs Well-Known Member

    9mm, care to say why you connect it to bioengineering?

    Never heard of it before, makes sense its been used in sci-fi shows/movies from the looks of it, though. And it's from South Africa, which puts it close to the OP.
  13. CPshooter

    CPshooter Well-Known Member

    OP must be trying to describe Bond's new Walther in the new 007 movie. :)
  14. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf member

    Sounds like someone is trying to scare him long-hand style away from semi-auto's or something.
  15. tightgroup tiger

    tightgroup tiger Well-Known Member

    That or he's hedging around not telling us something.

    Try again.
  16. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

    The CP-1 is actually quite a basic pistol.

    What made it unusual is that the company took it to a college design class and let them design the exterior to optimally work with the human hand.

    It is along the lines of Nikon having the body of the F4/5 designed by the same designer who did the Lotus Esprit and the Beretta 90-Two
  17. Skribs

    Skribs Well-Known Member

    A human hand or the human hand? I ask that because of how hard it is to find gloves that fit both my palm and fingers comfortably.
  18. Jaymo

    Jaymo Well-Known Member

    Skribs. You have that problem, too? My hands are large width and thickness, but my fingers are medium length.
  19. AJumbo

    AJumbo Well-Known Member

    Winfried- I say go ahead and buy the pistol, but don't buy anything else this guy ever wrote. His descriptions are downright hazardous!
  20. 9mmepiphany

    9mmepiphany Moderator

    You'd have to ask the manufacturer who provided the class with the specs

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