Mountain lion,live and let live,CA

[dairycreek]

Oregon also passed a kind of no hunt law for cougars!

By "kind of" I mean cougars can't be hunted with dogs. So in theory they can be hunted. In practical terms your chances of bagging a cougar without dogs is just about zero. As in other places that have passed no hunting/limited hunting laws the cougar population has increased dramatically.

Let's say a couple of years ago, you were born along with one or two siblings. Now you are young adults. All you want to do is get away from mom and the rest of the family.

This quote from the original post is all too true. Cougars are very territorial animals and as the young cougars leave they will range to find their own territory. But, as others have pointed out, while cougars increase in population, available range land does not increase. Hence, cougars in search of their own territory more and more come into conflict with humans. And they are dangerous animals! Make no mistake about that! They do kill humans and that is unacceptable. On the other hand , each year many cougars get killed by automobiles and, to me, that is also unacceptable.

It seems that the cougar population needs to be controlled in the same way that deer, elk, antelope, and sheep populations are controlled. And rigorously controlled hunting (with dogs) is a necessary part of that calculus if the cougars are not to become an endangered speciesl I think that there is no other answer. Good shooting

 

[halvey]

Imagine, for a moment, that you are a mountain lion living in the foothills above Mountain View or Palo Alto. Let's say a couple of years ago, you were born along with one or two siblings. Now you are young adults. All you want to do is get away from mom and the rest of the family.

Isn't this exactly what humans do? We move out of the house of our parents? So we need a house right? So we build one. Probably on the outskirts of the city BECAUSE ALL THE OTHER HOUSES ARE BEING LIVED IN!!!

 

[Rickstir]

By-the-by, there is a cougar attack on a deer video-taped by a conservation agent in MO. Just last week a police officer in Bourbon, MO (my favorite town) filmed a black bear walking down a highway. But Smokey the Bear wouldn't hurt us, would he? There was a cougar big enough to fill the tailgate of a full-size pickup hit and killed by a car just south of Jefferson City in the center of the state.


The late John O'Conner, hunting editor for Outdoor Life for years, once wrote that if a predator taste human flesh, it becomes the preferred food. Evidently we are pretty good tasting. So I don't think tracking down an offending cat is revenge, it is future self-defense for the next meal.

 

[sendec]

No Flaming,

I am asking this in good faith because I really do not know: Do cougars have to be hunted with dogs? I think some forms of hunting like with dogs or over bait sometimes mystify non-hunters like myself and could be misunderstood. Are dogs used for a specific reason?

(My questions are regarding sport hunting only, "rogue" wildlife could be hunted with an Apache gunship as far as I'm concerned)

 

[Frohickey]

sendec

I am asking this in good faith because I really do not know: Do cougars have to be hunted with dogs? I think some forms of hunting like with dogs or over bait sometimes mystify non-hunters like myself and could be misunderstood. Are dogs used for a specific reason?

Yes, you *can* hunt cougars without dogs. You *can* hunt them over bait, stalk them, etc. Please look at History of dogs, and tell us what the first use of dogs were.

The history of domestic dogs began 20,000 years ago, when Mesolithic Man first began to use dogs while hunting.

If cats hunted, they would be man's best friend too. But they don't.

 

[capt_happypants]

Even if humans taste awful, a smart predator quickly learns that humans have no sense of smell, terrible hearing, limited vision, and poor speed.

An animal that has attacked humans, IMO, needs to be killed immediately.

But California seems hell-bent on turning their state into a giant walking buffet for our feline friends.

 

[gunsmith]

Sendec

From what I hear,you need dogs. They chase kittykitty up a tree and you shoot the kittykat with a small round like a .22 (don't want to ruin the pelt)
kittykitty dies after a while (ruptured lung?).

I wouldn't be able to hunt this way my self. I would worry that the dogs would get bit by the cat,and it just seems unsportsmanlike in my humble opinion.

(Please you guys don't hate me-it's just an opinion! I am only active in RKBA. Would never vote for or encourage anti hunter leglislation.

God willing I should be able to do some camping in NV later this year. I will pick up a mtn lion tag and if I happen to see a kittykitty around when I'm hiking or camping I'll take it (if it's kittykitty season) if I can.

I tried to shoot rabbit with my glock last time I went camping out there but the dang things wouldn't cooperate and stand still when I was shooting at it

 

[Pug Puppy]

When some liberal's precious little Shazbond or Moonbeam gets mauled, they'll be screaming for air strikes on the mountains of that area, "for the children."
I think a better approach would be to allow people to use deadly force against these beasts, only when human lives, pets, or livestock are menaced.

 

[bobby68]

that is my concern... the children. living in california with peoplewho will endanger your children in many different ways is the larger problem. the moutain lion aspect is just a facet of the larger problem.. but yes, i'd be more concerned about my own kids being endangered because someone else thinks that cougars need more room.

 

[DnPRK]

Misguided "environmentalists" refuse to recognise that animals continue to reproduce until their food supply is exhausted, then they starve to death. Cockroaches, rats, coyotes and mountain lions are all subject to the realities of the food chain. Blaming human encroachment just shows how ignorant the "environmentalists" are.

 

[Frohickey]

Environmentalists are the ones that pushed for wolf reintroduction in some of the western states. And the criteria for a 'documented' wolf attack on humans make is so that wolf attacks are underreported. Wolf Attack criteria

The wolf has to be killed, examined and found to be healthy.
It must be proven that the wolf was never kept in captivity in its entire life.
There must be eyewitnesses to the attack.
The person must die from their wounds (bites are generally not attacks according to the biologists)

So, by the time people start noticing the problems these animals cost, the 'eco-scientists' can point to their data and say there is no such problem.

 

[Satch]

Mountain Lion

Reminds me of about 2 years ago about some guy and his wife who would go up to Alaska and live in Grizzy Bear country with them all summer. He even went to schools in the lower 48 telling kids that they were an almost docile animals in their area. People up there told him to be careful but he said he wasn't a bit worried. He done this for several years untiiilll----you get the rest I b elieve.

 

[jefnvk]

6 month old thread, BTW.

Any animal that attacks people needs to be destroyed. If a dangerous animal is found in a ppulated area, it needs to be relocated, if possible. If it makes threatening gestures, it needs to be destoyed. Animals are not people, nor are they on a level with people. I am not advocating shooting a predator on sight, but if it becomes necessary, some people need to learn the difference.

 

[308win]

It seems that the cougar population needs to be controlled in the same way that deer, elk, antelope, and sheep populations are controlled. And rigorously controlled hunting (with dogs) is a necessary part of that calculus if the cougars are not to become an endangered speciesl I think that there is no other answer.

I agree but without the dogs. I know that cougars are nocturnal and secretive animals but if one doesn't have the skill and discipline to hunt them on their ground with the advantage of a firearm only then one shouldn't be hunting them.

But California seems hell-bent on turning their state into a giant walking buffet for our feline friends.

From what I know of California this seems like a workable economic solution to me.

 

[torpid]

Aw, hell- these animals are doomed eventually, anyway:

1) Build brand new subdivision in formerly remote hillside area.
2) Mountain lions somehow magically appear in new subdivision.
3) Cull said mountain lions to protect the kids.
4) Surviving lions retreat to more remote areas.
5) (Repeat cycle from #1 until eventually no more "predator problem" exists).

Whee!

 

[thorn726]

Yes the editorial was about the Palo Alto Lion.

TOTAL BS. i saw that video.
the lion wasnt doing anything but sit in a tree .

he could have been tranquilzed, but rather than wait at all, the cops showed up, looked for about 2 sec, and blew the lion out of the tree.

all the people were so scared, just ready to kill it, a bunch of soccer moms.

there was no attack, no anything but a big cat resting in a tree .

got to love the mountaimn lion attack signs around here=

"try to appear larger"
"dont run, try to fight it off!"

if the lion had shown any action , i would not be mad, but they just didnt want to deal with it , and just killed it.
SENSELESS

 

[Rickstir]

Just like the Wild Turkey, if you ever want to ensure a speicies survival, put a hunting season on it and watch how the hunters make sure there is enough to go around. Back in the 60s in MO, it was very hard to find a wild turkey, now you can't swing a dead cat and not hit one. Conservation is a large part in ethical hunting, and hunting is an important part of conservation. Don't expect the libs to get that last line.

 

[cookekdjr]

Just like the Wild Turkey, if you ever want to ensure a speicies survival, put a hunting season on it and watch how the hunters make sure there is enough to go around. Back in the 60s in MO, it was very hard to find a wild turkey, now you can't swing a dead cat and not hit one. Conservation is a large part in ethical hunting, and hunting is an important part of conservation. Don't expect the libs to get that last line.

Actually, I'm a liberal and I love your post. Most folks opposed to hunting just don't understand the big picture. Your line "if you ever want to ensure a speicies survival, put a hunting season on it and watch how the hunters make sure there is enough to go around" says it all.

 

[brian roberts]

predators.....

ah, well, you won't have to worry much longer, West Virginia traded some Turkeys to Wyoming for coyotes on a 1-1 ratio. i just talked to a guy in Louisiana, & he told me that in his part of the state, there isn't a quail, woodcock, or pheasant around, & if they are, they're mighty quiet about it. he said the same thing, they started impoting coyotes, he said it was because the pulp companies wanted something to get rid of the deer, that were eating the new, tender little pines when they came up. its my understanding the game departments won't admit to these "importations" when asked. i was also told the same thing's happening in Pennsylvania, & the pheasant population's been DECIMATED as a result. need to buy some more camo, digital calls, suppressors, maybe???

 

[308win]

West Virginia traded some Turkeys to Wyoming for coyotes on a 1-1 ratio

Now that makes a lot of sense since WVA is surrounded by states with large coyote populations. If this is true no wonder the people here in AH HIA like to tell WVA jokes.

 

[30Cal]

I saw a lion out back about a month ago here on the south side of El Toro in Morgan Hill as I was hauling my 4 mo old daughter. It was about 40yds from us and about 120yds from the back porch. We're on the fringe of subdivision territory but still mainly country. My daughter made a squeek and the cat perked up, so I took a fairly direct route back to the house. 2 weeks back I found a ton of tracks and beat feet back to the ranch. I don't like the idea of being on the TV news.

I normally tote a little something on the hip, but that reinforced the idea some. It's nice to have options.

Ty

 

[Art Eatman]

Hunting mountain lions with dogs? Hey, that's really easy, if "easy" means you can run up and down mountains for three or four miles, up to maybe twelve or fifteen miles. "All" ya gotta do is stay within hearing distance of a running, barking, dog, okay?

Or, you can take a bunch of table scraps--fish, steak bones, etc.--and set it all out. Adding a dead rabbit won't hurt. Last, sprinkle a half a pack of bulk catnip from the pet-center of your grocery store. Do all this when the nearly-full moon rises just before sunset.

Go to your bait about an hour or so before sundown. Sit back and wait. Maybe you'll be lucky; maybe not.

Lions come to wounded-rabbit calls, also. Some guys were sitting in a pickup, blowing happily with their Burnham Brothers caller. The truck shifted on the springs, and a great hairy paw reached in through the opened back window. Calling can sometimes be exciting.

, Art

 

[Frohickey]

Reminds me of about 2 years ago about some guy and his wife who would go up to Alaska and live in Grizzy Bear country with them all summer. He even went to schools in the lower 48 telling kids that they were an almost docile animals in their area. People up there told him to be careful but he said he wasn't a bit worried. He done this for several years untiiilll----you get the rest I b elieve.

That would be Timothy Treadwell and his girlfriend.

 

[308win]

Hunting mountain lions with dogs? Hey, that's really easy, if "easy" means you can run up and down mountains for three or four miles, up to maybe twelve or fifteen miles. "All" ya gotta do is stay within hearing distance of a running, barking, dog, okay?

I watched enough of an Outdoor Life Channel piece on hunting mountian lions with dogs to become anti hunting large game with dogs for the rest of my life. It seems that this guide took 'sportsmen' lion hunting by turning dogs with GPS collars loose on a recent lion track and bringing the 'sport' back in the morning to shoot what they treed. Something should be shot but not the lion IMHO; I vote for the guide and the 'sportsman'.

 

[Sindawe]

If a dangerous animal is found in a ppulated area, it needs to be relocated, if possible. If it makes threatening gestures, it needs to be destoyed.

That in populated areas, right? If its in the wilds, I have to disagre. IMAO its incumbent apon the people who venture in the wildlifes homes to have some clue about the animals habits, tracks and threat displays telling the people to back off, they are too close. The signs that large, dangerous predators give is no longer a mystery. Heck, even sharks use body language, and I've learned to read it from nature programs, and I'm no ichthyologist.