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My Pastor just blanched at the sight of a toy MP5

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by XD Fan, Apr 23, 2007.

  1. XD Fan

    XD Fan Well-Known Member

    I was at my church last Friday evening for a Bible study. A couple of the kids brought toy guns, two dart guns and a toy MP5. My pastor saw the MP5and was appalled. He was not bothered by the dart guns but the MP5 really disturbed me. He asked what I thought. My response was that it was just an inanimant object.

    Why can't people see the truth. I guess I have some educating to do
  2. thexrayboy

    thexrayboy Well-Known Member

    You are that close to Dixie and the preacher has a problem with toy guns? Sounds like he might be on reassignment from somewhere a little less enlightened like say
    oh San Francisco.
  3. telomerase

    telomerase Well-Known Member

    Remind him of the command from Yoshua ben-Yosef to "sell your cloak and buy an MP5".

    On second thought, the thought that his religion was originally (pre-Constantine) against world government might disturb him even more :D
  4. Quoheleth

    Quoheleth Well-Known Member

    From a pastor...

    Well...how would you feel if your pastor showed up to Bible class with a pentagram hanging around his neck...or a swastica monogrammed onto his Bible cover...or some other symbol...

    You challenge him and he says, "It's just a symbol...give me a break..."

    The issue isn't that it is inatimate; it's what it *could* be; what it is a symbol of in some people's minds. Those symbols raise certain emotions - and fears - and in some, cause really strong reactions, right or wrong.

    I am a pastor. If someone showed up to church with a gun - yes, even a toy - I would make sure I was double-checking it. The safety & welfare of the members in the building is, practically speaking (if not technically speaking) part of my job.

    After last week's events, I do not blame him a bit. In fact, I have the evening news on as I type. I live in the Houston area, and the CBS station just reported a kid carrying an unloaded pistol to school today, a copycat shooting that mirrored the NASA shooting last week, and still are talking about the VT scene. Yeah, guns are in the forefront of people's mind right now.

    Even though I am planning a new gun purchase for myself, I'm not broadcasting it at church. In fact, I've considered getting a CCL for myself, or keep a pistol in a safe place in my desk. I passed the idea by a guy at church who has a CCL and he told me he would if he were me.

    My point: I'm a gun guy, but I am also cautious & conservative when it comes to others. It's the old principal of "trust but verify." Or, like we say when we drive on the highways: it's not me I worry about...it's the other idiot. There's only one of me, but lots of others... Don't be too hard on the guy. His heart is probably in the right place and his head is trying to keep ahead of what could happen.

    Biblically, he's probably practicing the dual principals of "Love does no harm" and "Do not cause the weaker brother to stumble."

    Finally, and again as a gun guy, I see *absolutely no reason* for a toy gun - especially one that appears to be this realistic - to be at church or Sunday school. If I were in this guy's shoes, I would have gone further, found the parent, and gotten it OUT now. Inatimate object: yes. A distraction: definitely. Disturbing for some: probably. So, it goes. Just like if a kid were playing with a yo-yo or a deck of cards. Outtahere.

    There it is...the target is posted...fire away...

    Preacher Man
  5. Eleven Mike

    Eleven Mike Well-Known Member

    Most Christians that I know (and I'm a Christian from rural MO, as well) are also opposed to world govt. Ya know, the anti-Christ and all that. Why do you say the early church was opposed to world government?
    I think Jesus has better taste in weaponry, myself. :)
  6. TXWhackmaster

    TXWhackmaster Member

    I see no reason to bring any toys to church. Get yourself a ccl pastor.
  7. TimboKhan

    TimboKhan Moderator

    First off, I am an avid heavy metal fan, so I think it would be awesome if my pastor came to church wearing a pentagram. Moving on, thats the most milquetoast thing I have ever heard. Being sensitive to others doesn't extend so far as to try and please everybody based solely off of what you might think is offensive. You know what offends me? Women who wear too much cologne. It stinks and makes me nauseous. Are you gonna throw them out of church for that, or make them wash NOW? My opinion is that pastors need to be a rock upon which to lean on. Protect your flock, don't coddle them.

    Secondly, your comparison between a toy gun and the swastika is not a valid one. The Swastika directly represents the murder of about 6 million people, and there is no arguing that fact. A toy MP-5 could just as easily represent a SWAT team member as it could a bad guy. Additionally, it is a toy. I have a toy lightsaber, and that doesn't seem to make anyone think I am a Jedi.
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2007
  8. ReadyontheRight

    ReadyontheRight Well-Known Member

    I thought it was "sell your cloak and get a Garand www.odcmp.com"

    I guess I am out of touch with modern religion, but when did kids start bringing toys to church?
  9. TheDisturbed1

    TheDisturbed1 Well-Known Member

    Ya know... The youth group at my church is gonna go have a 24-hour paintball war in june. but its not IN the church.

    buuuut... if the toy MP5 doesnt fire any projectiles nor was he pointing it at people, I see no problem.
  10. gunsmith

    gunsmith member

    one of the local big churches has child care, so kids with toys are a common sight.
    I wouldn't go to a church that frowned on kids having toys.
    I see barely concealed ccw's there all the time too.
  11. BobTheTomato

    BobTheTomato Well-Known Member

    That is one hell of an expensive coat to sell for a MP5 :)
  12. Vairochana

    Vairochana Well-Known Member

    Hey I am a freemason- we regularly carry weapons of Math Instruction
  13. Durruti

    Durruti Well-Known Member

    Keep in mind that this was prior to 1986. :neener:
  14. JWarren

    JWarren Well-Known Member

    I am going to try to take a serious stab at this question. There have been a lot of good considerations brought up on this thread.

    1. I would tell the pastor, regarding his concern, "Hey, it's just cowboys and indians in a new generation. You and I had our six-shooter cap guns."

    2. Regarding symbols: Like word, symbols mean things. Sadly, symbols are often co-opted by various groups and their meanings are twisted and altered to represent that group. Hitler didn't create the swastika-- he co-opted an Indian symbol (IIRC) with positive meaning and now it is a symbol of his twisted vison. The pentagram has been used in many religions-- including early Judiasm. I am no expert, but it is a current symbol of meaning in Wicca. Just yesterday, it was announced that Wiccan veterans will be allowed to mark their graves with the pentagram.

    Too often symbols are used by those that are not convicted to that belief or ideology in order to gardner some type of shock value. Too often, they get the reaction they are hoping for from us.

    3. I can see why-- at times-- it isn't inappropriate for a child to bring toys to church. In our church, we have a community center, an activity center, etc. Throughout the week, we have activities going on. The church, in many rural areas, is more than simply a center for worship. It is the center of community.

    Often, the kids are out in the gym under supervison of our youth coordinator while non-service activities are going on such as choir practice. There is always an effort to have religious-based discussion, but in reality kids get a lot of it. They have shorter attention spans, and often they are there with all of thier friends. They naturally want to play. Our solution is to have a short "lesson" at the beginning, and a short activity at the end. In the middle, the kids are allowed to play and socialize.

    I really don't see anything wrong with this. I often find myself thinking back to when I was a kid there -- doing the same things. Now, a lot of those kids I played with have kids of their own. Now, those kids are sitting on mundane committees with me and others working together on mundane matters. The friendships and socialization we developed at those young ages have allowed us to work with each other in a spirit of friendship and respect.

    Often the intrinsic rewards of "play" do not manifest themselves until much later.

    That is all I can think of at the moment.

    All the best!

  15. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

    I am a serious "gun guy" and I think it was a bad idea to bring a toy gun to church these days. Somethings are just common sense to me. No, I don't want to worry about every little scardy cats feelings, but being reasonable about hurting folks feelings and not doing things that can make many uncomfortable just makes sense. The MP5 is associated with killing, wether it's good guys killing bad guys or vice versa. We are comfortable with a real one laying around, but the average citizen definitely is not. :)
  16. reverendxlt

    reverendxlt New Member

    Hey Preacher Man,

    Where are you located? I am in the same boat, but Texas law seems to say I can't ccw in a church. Just wondered where the line is drawn...
  17. XD Fan

    XD Fan Well-Known Member

    Preacher Man

    I appreciate the thoughtful response.
  18. CleverNickname

    CleverNickname Well-Known Member

    Either your CHL class teacher sucked, or you didn't pay much attention in class. CCW in churches is legal in Texas as long as they don't post a 30.06 sign.
  19. Eleven Mike

    Eleven Mike Well-Known Member

    I lived in Texas long enough to almost get a CCW, and then I moved. I did take the classes, though. I think I was taught that. That was in 1999 or 2000. Did the law change since then, or do we have bad memories?
  20. Geronimo45

    Geronimo45 Well-Known Member

    Yes. I think it was within the last four or five years.

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