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Newbie BP Flintlock

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by LTR50flint, Dec 25, 2012.

  1. LTR50flint

    LTR50flint Member

    Wife just got me a Lyman Trade rifle 50 caliber flinter for Christmas
    Starting to order all the extra stuff I need.
    Any suggest on powder Pyrodex P for pan and Pyrodex RS or Select?
    Blackpowder?- Goex Brand?
    3fg-main charge
    4fg-priming-cannot find anyplace
    I cannot find real BP here in NE PA
    Load for hunting .490 ball, .020 lubed patch?
    Start with 50 grains and then go up? in Pyrodex RS?
    I ordered the Lyman Blackpowder Handbook
    I have been checking Cabelas and October Country for supplies
    Large Possible bag
    2-Powder horns -with straps
    Cleaning Kit
    short starter
    powder measure
    powder measure-pan-ffffg-charger brass?
    button cleaning jag
    ball puller
    patch puller
    2-bore brush-nylon and brass
    50 caliber in 8-32 thread.
    Cleaning patches 50 caliber
    Hoppe 9 BP solvent or cleaning with water?
    ¾ inch English flints
    Ball bag
    Cast round balls .490- 50 caliber-180 grain
    Lubed patches 50 caliber
    Frizzen cover-leather
    Do I need a brass hammer or drift to get wedge out?
    BP Newbie
  2. xXxplosive

    xXxplosive Well-Known Member

    No problem priming with 3f ............always found my .50's to shoot around 70grs. of 3f Goex. Also try different size patches and materials for your .490 balls......I even use bed sheet material if that's what the gun wants to shoot......the gun will let you know what it wants by the accuracy you attain with the different powder, patch, ball combinations you try.......have fun.
  3. BCRider

    BCRider Well-Known Member

    The others will be along shortlty but in the meantime I'll list what I've used for my own rocklock GPR.

    I'm using 3fg because it's what I have. But I understand that for 50Cal it's sort of optional to go with fffg or ffg.

    If you go with the FFFg don't sweat the lack of 4F. I've had pretty good luck with the 3F for the pan. It seldom fails to fire the prime. And when it does then the second time around it works fine. I don't think I've ever had to cock and try to light off my 3Fg prime charges more than twice.

    For basic target shooting out to 100 yards I've done fine with 40gns of 3Fg Goex black. For hunting charges you'd want more up around 80 to 90gns.

    I pour my charge from a pistol flask into a .500S&W empty casing and then pour that down the bore. Done because you don't want the main storage near the muzzle in case of a flare up. The spout throws 20gns per drop for my .36 C&B revolver so I can easily drop 40 or 60gns into the transfer casing.

    It's wise to use a patch lube. On my BP trail days we shoot a good 25 or more shots in pretty quick time. There's just no time to swab the bore so the patch lube has to keep things moving easily. Some of the guys use a mix of Murphy's Oil Soap and something else. In my case I use "Moose Milk" made from one part Ballistol to 2 parts plain water. This mixes into a milky emulsion that lubes the bore and keeps the fouling soft to the extent that I don't need to clean the bore between shots.

    That should be enough to get you started.
  4. LTR50flint

    LTR50flint Member

    Goex? or Pyrodex

    Goex? or Pyrodex?

    My local shops do not carry BP. Suggestions ?
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2012
  5. LTR50flint

    LTR50flint Member

    I found possible real black powder at the following- maybe sticky on the forum would

    Montrose Sporting Goods, Montrose, Susquehanna Co., 570-278-3154

    D&R Sports, Nanticoke, Luzerne Co., 570-735-1752

    Dixon's Muzzleloading, Kempton, Berks Co., 610-756-6271
  6. treemaker

    treemaker Member

    Pyrodex wont work in a flinter unless you unless you put a few grains of black under the charge.
    Find some 2f or 3f black powder. I have ground 2f finer for primer powder.
  7. Loyalist Dave

    Loyalist Dave Well-Known Member

    There is no problem with using 3Fg in your .50. I use 3Fg from my .40 up to and including my .54, for both prime and main charge, as simple is good, and only one horn for both prime and main charge is simple.

    Pyrodex or any other substitute and flintlocks don't often work well. Black powder is the key. If you don't have a store near you, try ordering it from Graf & Sons. Any of the black powder makers produce a good product, but "reenactor" grade from Goex while it will work, is really meant to be used for blanks.

    The rule of thumb is to start with powder equal to the caliber, so a .50 shooter starts with 50 grains, and works up. I have had excellent results with 70 grains of 3Fg in my .54 and my .50. It is very accurate, and goes through whitetails at 100 yards with a broadside hit in the lungs.

    The key will be balancing accuracy plus energy, so from 70 grains and up, you will have plenty of energy, so then work out what load and patch and ball combination gives you the best accuracy. Don't worry about speed loaders and reloading fast. Make that first shot count on a deer. Then relax, reload, and sit for a good 20 minutes, and then go pick up your deer.

    Consider a knapped flint rather than a machine cut flint. I have had much better luck with a real, knapped flint.

    Finally, shoot, shoot, shoot...., get to know your rifle, as BP guns and rifles all have "personalities". Flinters are really very reliable, but you have to learn what works best for each rifle.

  8. LTR50flint

    LTR50flint Member

    Thanks for the great information, any special storage for Goex BP, same ammo cabinet in heated basement smokeless ammo is stored their? 20 feet from gas stove.
    I found English black flints, just buy a knapping hammer and put an edge on it?
    Thanks for all the replies from the forum lots to digest it seems with the snow storm coming I will have time to research and buy supplies.
  9. xXxplosive

    xXxplosive Well-Known Member

    Don't really need a hammer.....I knap with the back of my knife blade....keep powder stored in a dry place away from heat........preferably a gun safe or Magazine if you have one.
    You'll find after a while.....most that stuff you mentioned is not really necessary....the fun of hunting and shooting BP is improvising your own stuff....and it works.....especially with a smoothbore......maybe next for you.
  10. LTR50flint

    LTR50flint Member

    Cleaning Water or Solvent?

    Blackpowder Cleaning Water or Solvent?
  11. Steel Horse Rider

    Steel Horse Rider Well-Known Member

    I bought a chunk of plastic rain gutter and two end caps and built a BP cleaning trough. Cut the gutter about 6" longer than your barrel and silicone or glue the end caps in place. When you need to clean your gun place the gutter on a flat surface (I use the top of my chest freezer in the garage covered with some newspaper), fill with hot water with some Dawn or other grease cutting dishsoap, remove the barrel from the stock and the nipple from the barrel, and soak your barrel for ten minutes or so before running patches down to swab out any remains. Removing the nipple will allow you to tilt the barrel causing the hot water to flow out through the nipple hole giving a turbulent scrubbing to the chamber area, plus it allows the barrel to fill quicker by giving an escape route for the trapped air. Remove and dry (if you heat at least half of the water to near boiling in a microwave by using a large [quart size] measure the barrel will be plenty hot to aid drying), wiping and swabbing with whatever preservative you use. I use CLP on the outside and Bore Butter for the inside.
  12. xXxplosive

    xXxplosive Well-Known Member

    This is a flintlock not a percussion gun.......just plug the touch hole with a wooden toothpick and use a soapy solution of dish detergent and warm water.....dry with patches and then lube. Always clean your frizzen and flint also and check to see if you have a good spark......for best flints...IMO go to Track Of The Wolf.
    Tip....Never ever use oil on / in a BP barrel as petrolium distolates of any kind Kill ...BP.
  13. Steel Horse Rider

    Steel Horse Rider Well-Known Member

    Yep, I knew that but made the mistake of mentally going through the procedure I use for my percussion stuff.... Sorry.
  14. LTR50flint

    LTR50flint Member

    No oil in BP bbl?

    No oil in BP bbl?
    How about Hoppes 9 BP solvent
    or Butch's Black powder Bore Shine?
    Lyman has me cleaning first time with it
  15. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Well-Known Member

    My cleaning method with the flinters is to use super hot near boiling water and a little detergent to get the soot out, then while the bbl is still hot remove the water with patches on the inside and rags on the outside. I then use bore butter or my own beeswax based lube for the final cleaning. This forms a natural wax residue that works better than any oil.
  16. BigG

    BigG Well-Known Member

    If it has a wedge holding the barrel in, take it out (& ramrod) and barrel will lift right out. Put the breech into a 5 gal pail of hot water and use the ramrod with a jag and a patch to pump water up through the barrel a number of times. Dump the water out of the barrel and it should dry itself in a few minutes if the water was sufficiently hot.

    Then go through the barrel with dry patches or Hoppes No. 9 or your favorite solvent and dry patch it. Finally, oil it with CLP or whatever preservative you use and the rest of the firearm will be easy to clean up with just rags and small brushes.

    TIP: Do most of your BP cleaning out doors because the residue is messy stuff.
  17. xXxplosive

    xXxplosive Well-Known Member

    Yes......Petrolium Distolates....Kill Black Powder.....no need to use them to clean your gun.
    If you do and some is left in the breech it can kill the powder when you load to shoot......also, someone here mentioned boiling water......Not necessary......and it can crack a wood stock if the Bbl is not removed first......just clean with dish detergent and warm water.....dry with patches and then lube with Bore Butter or Talo-Beeswax Combo.....No need to use Hoppes 9 on a muzzleloader....
  18. dpote

    dpote Well-Known Member

    I know what you are going through right now.
    I recently got a flintlock myself.
    Save yourself some time and aggravation by getting Dutch Shoultz' system.
    After shooting BP for years, this is the thing that brought it all together for me.

    Edited to add Graf's brand black powder is very good. https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/category/categoryId/3501

    The last case of powder I got was from Coonie's here in New Mexico. They also ship. Coonie's Explosives & Black Powder, Inc. 512 East Lea, Box 2062 Hobbs, NM 88240 (800)-713-6321

    I keep having to edit this, I'm so scatterbrained. Ballistol is your friend. Get all you can, you may never use another lube.

    Last edited: Dec 27, 2012
  19. arcticap

    arcticap Well-Known Member

    There are some black powder solvents that are petroleum distillates, and some of them evaporate very rapidly. Rusty Duck Black Off is one of them. Another product containing distillates is Hoppe's Number 9 Black Powder Solvent & Patch Lube. Many of the black powder shooters over on ALR like it a lot and using it on patches doesn't harm black powder ignition. Even Ballistol is a petroleum distillate and a lot of folks use that. Eezox Gun Care is another product that is put in the bore and that is compatible with black powder too. And Bore Butter is made from petroleum products too!
    Using some distillates and then wiping them off is not any different than using water since water can also kill powder when it's left in the barrel. Plus water can cause rust which can kill the barrel which most solvents won't do.
    There are many other examples of chemicals used to clean barrels, and some are mixed with water to enhance its cleaning action in some respects.
    Sometimes distillates are more convenient to use at the range or in the field, or while waiting to do a thorough cleaning.
    There may not be any need to use distillates, but on the other hand there's not any need to use water either if someone doesn't want to risk giving rust a chance to start.
    Next thing you know someone is liable to say that it's better to clean the barrel with urine than with a solvent. Even using Ballistol is better than that! :D
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2012
  20. xXxplosive

    xXxplosive Well-Known Member

    Use what you like........what I'm saying is in reguards to any petrolium distolates left in the Bbl or the breach prior to loading......some of what you describe were designed IMO for inline and pellet propellants.
    I've been shooting and hunting with Flinters for 24 yrs....and am a NRA Cert Muzzleloading Instructor / Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun.....this my 21st year.....take it for what it's worth.
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2012

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