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No longer can use "The" in the name of trusts?

Discussion in 'NFA Firearms and Accessories' started by jmorris, Feb 12, 2013.

  1. jmorris

    jmorris Well-Known Member

    Read that "the" could no longer be used in the trust name (per 2 months ago). Anyone know if this is fact or just more drama?
  2. wally

    wally Well-Known Member

    Since it has to be engraved, why would anyone what a useless word in the name?
  3. Jim K

    Jim K Well-Known Member

    What is the source of that information? If BATFE, what circular, ruling, etc.?

    Sounds like the rumor mill to me, but then BATFE has been known for some arbitrary rulilngs. If you have a serious inquiry (e.g. you have already set up a trust with "the" in the name), call or write them. If just checking a rumor, forget it.

  4. Lee Roder

    Lee Roder Well-Known Member

    My Form 4 was finally returned last October with the article THE whited out. Instead of "The Roder Trust" as I submitted on the form, my form was returned with "Roder Trust", but at least the stamp was affixed

    Last edited: Feb 13, 2013
  5. Prince Yamato

    Prince Yamato Well-Known Member

    My form 4 got kicked back to my dealer because the atf had an issue with the the dealer using "the" in their name.

    It's not rumor. The ATF is going after definite articles now.
  6. Charger442

    Charger442 Well-Known Member

    Mine got kicked back 2 weeks ago. But was approved after striking through and initialing
  7. berettaprofessor

    berettaprofessor Well-Known Member

    Wow. I'm speechless. What possible difference can it make?
  8. jmorris

    jmorris Well-Known Member

    Interesting, thanks guys.
  9. jerkface11

    jerkface11 Well-Known Member

    Can you end it with a preposition?
  10. Prince Yamato

    Prince Yamato Well-Known Member

    It makes all the difference. Or as the ATF likes to say, "It makes all difference."
  11. michaelbsc

    michaelbsc Well-Known Member


    Talk about screwball things to toe the line over.

    Since I've never set up an NFA trust before, I don't know the procedure. But if it's like many other trusts the legal documents drawing it up can't be changed willy-nilly.

    Or are NFA trusts self directed implied trusts, that "get created" by the BATFE paperwork? So it gets the name with the handmade corrections because that's what's written down?

  12. FuzzyBunny

    FuzzyBunny Well-Known Member

    I would get Blacks Law Dictionary and look up the word " the ".

    You really have no idea the amount of words we use everyday that in the legal world may have 75 meanings. Such as the word "Person".

    We sign things all the time and really have no idea the legal meaning that can be applied to them.

    I found this out when looking up the word "is" that one of our elected guys used at one time.

    It has been said to me before that Attorney is french for word twister.
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2013
  13. MasterSergeantA

    MasterSergeantA Well-Known Member

    The ATF probably wouldn't care...but Grammar Girl would be horrified.

    So has the ATF become bored with abusing our Second Amendment rights and are now going after the First?
  14. bill3424

    bill3424 Well-Known Member

    Really?! I mean isn't there better thing to do over there.
  15. zignal_zero

    zignal_zero Well-Known Member

    It was probably my fault - my trust name has the word "the" in it, three times-

    "The blessed trust of the noble ninjas of the golden dawn"

    Sorry guys :-(
  16. Cesiumsponge

    Cesiumsponge Well-Known Member

    "The Cesiumsponge Trust" and "Cesiumsponge Trust" are two different trusts. "The" makes a difference. It's also weird to refer to your trust as the The Cesiumsponge Trust because that's not the same as referring it as the Cesiumsponge Trust.

    When I had my lawyer set up my trust years ago, he made it a point not to use the word "The" in the title of my trust. I suspect there is a legal reason for it but never bothered to inquire. I think you can restate the trust but you can't change the name of your trust or you've just formed a new entity. The trust name better be the same on all your Form 4's.

    Hopefully one of the legal eagles comes along and enlightens us to the possible reasons this action has been taking place lately.
  17. Arizona_Mike

    Arizona_Mike Well-Known Member

    I'm submitting 3 SBR Form 1s Monday. My paper bank checks just came in Friday's mail. Had not used one in 8+ years.

    Trust says "This revokable living trust shall be known as the [lower case] Xxxxxxxxx RLT. [Capitalized]".

    Name to be stamped is "Xxxxxxxxx RLT". In this case RLT is the actual name not an abbreviation of the name.

    We shall see . . .


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